Any Experienced Port Makers?

[vacuumpumpman]

haha you did mention to me you made a mean blueberry.

2/ when making your starter wine do you pay attention to the PH or TA? Does it change with the addition of the alcohol?

KIm
Blueberry is a very heavy bodied wine - I only have a couple of bottles left.

I have not made port from a lighter wine per say - not saying it would not work

Very nice article James !!

 

[ibglowin]

Just as there is more than one road to get you from Galveston to Houston, there is more than one road to a "Port Style Wine". You are correct in that the purest method to a port is to arrest fermentation at the desired level of brix with fortification high enough that no yeast could tolerate the alcohol level.

But to do it right you need a high ABV Grappa. To get a high ABV Grappa you need a still. I don't have a still.

That said if I were to arrest fermentation at 8-9% ABV I have just "shot myself" in the foot as they say because now I have to fortify from 8-9% up to 19% where as if I let it go to dry I end up with a much higher ABV wine that needs much less fortification.

By adding a high quality Zinfandel Concentrate I am adding not only the sugar needed but some nice flavor in the process. I am not a believer in the use of grain spirits in my port style wines.

I believe that, like any solvent, like dissolves better in like. In this instance grape spirits (Brandy) dissolves better in grape wine than grain spirits.

I fully realize there are people that feel that grain spirits are just fine and dandy. And that you can't taste the difference. I am just not one of them.

So I am going from Galveston to Houston and I am not taking I-45. I will be taking Hwy 6 and cutting over at Hwy 288 and running it all the way into town.

I end up in "Port Houston" with a really nice dark rich, flavor packed "port styled wine" that has an ABV of 19%. I just took a different road to get there. Thats all.

I am dang sure not as experienced as ibglowin are shoe...but i have to ask you guys.....a port is not to go dry and then backsweeten are flavor.
the whole idea of a port is to retain the sugar level and flavor level so as not to need the added sugar are flavor...
brandy, not everclear is suppose to be added at the halfway point of fermentation.
do not mean to offend, but what you made was a wine with added alcohol. sorry...i mean no offense.
please correct me with more info if i am wrong...
thanks.

 

[spaniel]

I am dang sure not as experienced as ibglowin are shoe...but i have to ask you guys.....a port is not to go dry and then backsweeten are flavor.
the whole idea of a port is to retain the sugar level and flavor level so as not to need the added sugar are flavor...
brandy, not everclear is suppose to be added at the halfway point of fermentation.
do not mean to offend, but what you made was a wine with added alcohol. sorry...i mean no offense.
please correct me with more info if i am wrong...
thanks.

While this may be technically true, your prescribed technique is, for all reasonable purposes, illegal for the home wine (port) maker. You need high ABV fortifier and such high ABV brandy is not routinely available to us non-commercial people. Consumer-level brandy is too weak and would be required in too high of volume to retain the intended character/body of the port. Hence, we have to use higher-octane grain alcohol.

I've done a single batch of black raspberry port. Overall, I was happy with the outcome. I used Everclear to fortify and oaked carefully to taste. If I were to do it again, all I'd change is explore ways to give it a bit more body. I did add tannin but perhaps not enough.

 

[jamesngalveston]

vernsgal: go here and in the upper left hand side the whole story of what port is, how its made, the history, is there.

notice there is no mention of grappa, are everclear....but there is no mention of a fruit port either...

http://taylor.pt/en/what-is-port-wine/introduction/

 

[vernsgal]

While this may be technically true, your prescribed technique is, for all reasonable purposes, illegal for the home wine (port) maker. You need high ABV fortifier and such high ABV brandy is not routinely available to us non-commercial people. Consumer-level brandy is too weak and would be required in too high of volume to retain the intended character/body of the port. Hence, we have to use higher-octane grain alcohol.

I've done a single batch of black raspberry port. Overall, I was happy with the outcome. I used Everclear to fortify and oaked carefully to taste. If I were to do it again, all I'd change is explore ways to give it a bit more body. I did add tannin but perhaps not enough.

Spaniel you hit the nail on the head.
I think what people get hung up on is the word “brandy”. I know from all the reading I have done, true port is made with non commercial brandy. I found this article , sorry never copied where I got it, I’m bad for just copying and pasting notes, it said :

“First off, Port is always fortified with brandy. But in this case, brandy just means distilled alcohol from grapes.... nothing like the brandy you would buy for personal consumption. The distillate used in port production is more similar to a grain-neutral spirit.”

It’s also why magazines like winemaker magazine refer to homemade ports as “port style wines”. It also says ”Making port-style wine at home is simple if you plan your vinification process ( the process of turning grapes into wine). It does not necessarily require the intricate blending or the use of oak barrels as in true port.”

Well we don’t all have the proper barrels either and since it’s illegal to operate a still ,none of us can make a true port and that we have to make do with what we have. That’s why both everclear or brandy or vodka works in making a “home port wine”

Some wise person here said to me “There are always different ways to do the same thing.” And I think most WMT members will agree, it’s all about what you like.

That’s why I made this thread to find out who has completed their Ports and how you have done them. I’m just interested in the outcome and how you got there. So no worries about whether it’s the right way or the wrong. How’s the taste

 

[jamesngalveston]

ibglowin says it best....doesnt matter how you get there, your there.

I have not mad a port, port style, port type, fortified wine, wine with alcohol, that tasted bad.....

the blackberry (port) is excellent.

 

[the_rayway]

Is anyone willing to share their successful recipes? I'm always looking for good, step-by-step recipes...

 

[seth8530]

For some reason their is nothing like a port thread on this forum to cause ruckus lol. Always seems to happen without fail ha!

I have made a "Port Style" Black Currant port which is currently around 18 months old. It is quite good IMHO but looking back with a new perspective I feel like we should avoid calling anything not made from grapes a Port. Mainly since port is made from grapes ( which IMHO is a much more important distinction than whether or not you fortify prior or before going dry and whether or not you use grappa or brandy).

That being said, although I believe that my Black Currant "port" turned out perfectly fine using everclear, if I was making a grape based port I would do everything in my capability to source myself some commercial grappa to use in it. I say this because their is a difference in flavour even between neutral spirits.. Ie compare high proof vodka against high proof corn whiskie, both spirits are similar but I can assure you the taste is quite different.

That being said, I do not hate on fortified fruit wines made in the port style ( like my black currant which for some reason I decided to call a port) but looking back, I think it is unfair to Port to call a fruit wine Port. I believe perfectly fine tasting Ports and "Port Styled wines" can be made with everclear or grappa, but I believe that Grappa should be used whenever possible when using grapes as the base.

Anyways my .02$

 

[Runningwolf]

Just as there is more than one road to get you from Galveston to Houston, there is more than one road to a "Port Style Wine". You are correct in that the purest method to a port is to arrest fermentation at the desired level of brix with fortification high enough that no yeast could tolerate the alcohol level.

But to do it right you need a high ABV Grappa. To get a high ABV Grappa you need a still. I don't have a still.

That said if I were to arrest fermentation at 8-9% ABV I have just "shot myself" in the foot as they say because now I have to fortify from 8-9% up to 19% where as if I let it go to dry I end up with a much higher ABV wine that needs much less fortification.

By adding a high quality Zinfandel Concentrate I am adding not only the sugar needed but some nice flavor in the process. I am not a believer in the use of grain spirits in my port style wines.

I believe that, like any solvent, like dissolves better in like. In this instance grape spirits (Brandy) dissolves better in grape wine than grain spirits.

I fully realize there are people that feel that grain spirits are just fine and dandy. And that you can't taste the difference. I am just not one of them.

I end up in "Port Houston" with a really nice dark rich, flavor packed "port styled wine" that has an ABV of 19%. I just took a different road to get there. Thats all.

Mike is spot on with what he posted in my opinion. When I make a port I ferment dry so less spirits is used. Aging in a neutral barrel would be my preference but I don't have that option at home.

Now some food (spirits) for thought. If one was to use a rain alcohol and ran it through an activated carbon filter would that take some of the harshness away? If you're buying a cheap vodka and run it through a Brita filter once or twice it does help. With that said though, Ever clear is too high in alcohol and would probably melt the plastic so it would have to be cut with distilled water to about 45% abv. This would defeat the idea using less spirits at a high abv.

 

[seth8530]

Well, that would all depend on the type of plastic used. Their are quite a few plastics out their which are literately impervious to alcohol.

 

[shoebiedoo]

OK, I feel like stirring the pot a little ::
I always get a little frustrated when people get so "wrapped around the axle" with nomenclature. I don't think there would ever be a question what some who refers to his/her fortified fruit wine as Port, is trying to say. Just like correcting someone who asks for a "Kleenex" even though the actual brand of facial tissue may be different. We all make wine because we like being able to make our wines "our own". we do this by thinking outside the box. At the end of the day, if someone say's they made a port wine, I think it's pretty clear they fortified some sort of wine with a higher alcohol. That being said.

My port wine was made from a bucket of Brunello juice that stopped fermentation at 1.01 sg. I decided to add the strongest proof everclear I could get (195) because I didn't want to dilute the actual flavor of the wine too much by adding a weaker brandy. If I were to make a port intentionally i would never try to interrupt and fermentation simply because that's more of a crap shoot. I believe you're always best fermenting to dry. Mostly because you never know what life has in store for you. you may not beable to check you fermentation progress regularly and I'm certainly not going to get up in the middle of the night to check fermentation. I prefer to ferment dry and as I mentioned earlier, back sweeten with grape concentrate instead of a simple syrup. This will help with flavor. I had a friend of mine fortify a batch of Barolo with home made Kalua and I have to admit. It was pretty darn good. He calls it a Kalua Port, whether that is technically correct is up for debate but I DO call it good
I've never made a fruit wine so I will not comment on that. There are so many ways to make a port style wine from grape juice (red wine) I would just recommend the following basic rules. after that, have some fun with it.

1)Out of convience, I would ferment, what ever wine you choose, dry, then use the pearson square to fortify to 18 to 20%. (you can raise your SG prior to fermenting but I've never done it that way so I'll let others chime in there)
2) back sweeten with a grape concentrate like WineExperts.
3) use the Peason Square to get the final alcohol content you desire. Keep in mind, the weaker the fortifier, the more you have to ad.

hope this helps

 

[Runningwolf]

Hey Shoebie, how did your Brunello and his Barolo turn out? I'm assuming these were Italian juice pails. I'm in the process of making one right now with a blend of ten different Chilean reds. I'm thinking possibly an Amerone might also be a great one for port.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Dan

That is why I recommend to add the activated carbon in a 1 gallon container and the charcoal will actually absorb the fusel oils and make the ever clear taste better.

I also made a PVC charcoal tube that is filled with activated carbon and coffee filters on the end of tue tube and this also helps as well.

No melting of the PVC tubing

The oak really makes a difference also by adding it straight to the ever clear

Thanks Stevec

 

[shoebiedoo]

The brunello is 2 years old now and turned out excellent (won a Bronze medal at Indy). I did have to guess (wrong, I might ad) at what the initial SG of the Buckets was. when I brought it home it was already down to 1.04ish so when it stopped I guessed it was at 10% alcohol but I think it was actually at 12, so the prot is fortified to 22% I added Hungarian Oak which really made for a nice finish. The Kalua port is surprisingly good! He made his own Kalua with 151 rum so although you can defenently taste it, it's not overpowering. All in all he did a good job

 

[shoebiedoo]

Oh, and yes, these were Mosto Bello Buckets!

 

[Runningwolf]

Thanks for the update Shobie they sound awesome.

Steve I saw that set up on you tube and like it. I have the same basic one but out of SS. Now to find the carbon. Locally it is about $10 for about a pound. I am figuring I need 1.5 pounds. I can buy a 28 pound bag of it for $70 plus shipping.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Dan

I also found out that you can clean and reuse the charcoal also. I believe you have to boil it so all the oils are pulled out of the charcoal and then on a drying pan in the oven to heat up .

Thanks Steve

 

[JohnT]

Like I mentioned above ^ I do not back sweeten, everything is natural. I add the alcohol when I choose how much residual sugar I desire and stop the fermentation by adding the everclear to kill the yeast.

Warning !!
Sometimes I had to wake up every 2 hours to get that right window of opportunity -

vpm.

I take much the same approach. I wait until my wine has 10% residual before adding my fortifier.

Have you ever tried using brandy in your port? I find that, although the wine is diluted, the brandy brings some flavor to the party (some wine characteristics as well as some oak undertones).

 

[jamesngalveston]

john t, i do pretty much as steve, sometimes i will have a 6 percent sugar sometimes 10....but i do agree, i tried everclear once, and i prefer the brandy addition, i do belive it makes a better flavor.

2014 i will only use a blackberry brandy that is 140 proof

 

[shoebiedoo]

Now that sounds good!