Ancient way of making wine

[BernardSmith]

The earliest wine in time of the apostles was merely the juice pressed from grapes - no fermentation; no alcohol. Boiling the juices was a fairly common practice to prevent any fermentation.

You may be correct but the bible itself refers to Noah making wine and getting drunk.. so clearly, alcoholic wine was something well known 2000 years ago. Whether cults in the region produced alcohol or viewed alcohol as prohibited is not something I am very familiar with but certainly Rabbinic Judaism at the time of the destruction of the second temple did not view alcohol as taboo.

 

[BernardSmith]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defrutum

Also see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome_and_wine#Roman_winemaking

So the Romans boiled their wines.. and added lead to increase sweetness.. but that does not mean that the locals in what was Judea boiled their wine. My guess is that most wine would have been made for home consumption so recipes would have been family based.

 

[balatonwine]

bible itself refers to Noah making wine and getting drunk.. so clearly, alcoholic wine was something well known 2000 years ago.

Plenty of historical and archeological evidence that wine making was known much more than just 2000 years ago.

 

[balatonwine]

So the Romans boiled their wines.. and added lead to increase sweetness.. but that does not mean that the locals in what was Judea boiled their wine.

But, that also doesn't mean they didn't.

 

[balatonwine]

Recent not really at least to you europeans it would be but its been done for over 100 years in california which in the US is considered a long time as our country is just a couple hundred years old.

"You Europeans"?

Dude.... I am a USA citizen.* I was born and raised in California (Los Angeles). Lived for years in the central valley (Sacramento city). I doubt there is a winery in Sonoma, Napa or Mendocino I did not visit at least once in my life. So I do, kind of, know a thing or two about the wines and wine making in CA.

I am just now living as an expat in Europe.*

Sure.... I am of "European" ethnicity..... But maybe you are too.

* But, in all fairness.... who would know? Since the new forum format does not make it easy to find such information about members. But go to:

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/members/balatonwine.36428/

Then select the "information" tab.

 

[BernardSmith]

But, that also doesn't mean they didn't.

Of course, but I asked for a citation or a source that showed that they did boil their wine and I was offered a source that pointed to a very different external culture.

Regarding the archaeological evidence that folk in the region knew how to make wine (and beer) from the times of the Sumerians and Pharaonic Egypt - absolutely no question whatsoever - but the post asserted (without evidence) that sect associated with Jesus never made wine. I assumed that the post meant either because that sect eschewed wine (but the early Jesus' followers were not I think from anything other than mainstream Rabbinic Judaism (not, for example, from the Essenes, a sect that did not make or drink wine (although clearly, there are those who do suggest this) , but I know very , very little of the early development of Christianity ) or did not know how to ferment fruit.

 

[balatonwine]

Of course, but I asked for a citation or a source that showed that they did boil their wine and I was offered a source that pointed to a very different external culture.

I guess my reply to that is you may be vastly underestimating the sharing of knowledge and technologies among regions and cultures of that time. And as I said, which is a historical fact, the western Mediteranian was under Roman control at 2000 years ago, and subject to Roman laws and trade, which were quite complex and regulated local and regional wine production and trade.

As for wine making in the "generic" region under consideration, it was well developed even earlier, in the Bronze age:

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bronze-ag...anaanites-were-big-alcohol-production-1462845

And given human nature.... if there was some way to get more alcohol.... well... any culture or region probably quickly adopted it (IMHO). I know I would have .....

If you want more references, you can ask the scholars listed at the sources there (Brandeis University, University of Haifa and the George Washington University). If you wish to delegate, I can ask on your behalf. I have often written such scholars on a number of issues.

but the post asserted (without evidence) that sect associated with Jesus never made wine. I assumed that the post meant either because that sect eschewed wine (but the early Jesus' followers were not I think from anything other than mainstream Rabbinic Judaism (not, for example, from the Essenes, a sect that did not make or drink wine (although clearly, there are those who do suggest this) , but I know very , very little of the early development of Christianity ) or did not know how to ferment fruit.

I think you need to consult any number of biblical scholars on this topic. I am not an expert or scholar on this issue. One can not "just read the Bible" and assume correct answers in regards to such issues -- the Bible is not complete enough in such details on such "minor" topics. It will require a professional historian to address. Again, if you wish to delete to me.....

 

[joeswine]

In Spain hige clay irns 22 feet high we're used to stablizst and preserve wine.
Do you notice how I always sauteed down fresh fruit another form of adding not only natural elements but concentrated flavor.
The Roman army traveled on wine the commanders drank it straight the balance drank it dilouted do to the high alcholo content..

 

[CK55]

"You Europeans"?

Dude.... I am a USA citizen.* I was born and raised in California (Los Angeles). Lived for years in the central valley (Sacramento city). I doubt there is a winery in Sonoma, Napa or Mendocino I did not visit at least once in my life. So I do, kind of, know a thing or two about the wines and wine making in CA.

I am just now living as an expat in Europe.*

Sure.... I am of "European" ethnicity..... But maybe you are too.

* But, in all fairness.... who would know? Since the new forum format does not make it easy to find such information about members. But go to:

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/members/balatonwine.36428/

Then select the "information" tab.

Again to me I always just assumed you were european cause again the forum needs a better section for explaining complex situations in regards to nationality.