WineXpert additives

[Motomike]

I am a total newbie to all of this but a long time wine drinker and lover. Will be planting wine grapes in the spring (marquette) but am making kit wines for now to gain experience. I am bulk aging my first batch of WE pinot noir and have followed the directions exactly and so far first tastings are pretty good. I am getting ready to make the WE Lodi Cab and would like to get a bit more "complexity" if that is possible. What about adding more sugar during primary fermentation? Or other fruits (raisins?) peppercorns, additional oak. Any recommendation would be appreciated.

 

[grapeman]

I wouldn't recommend straying to far from the included ingredients at this point. Get the basics down first by following the directions. That way you will have good sucess with the first couple kits to get a feel for what to expect. Later as you get more experience you can try a thing or two new to a batch and have something to compare it to. I haven't made the Lodi Cab, but would expect that kit to include some oak.

 

[summersolstice]

I agree with Appleman that you should get a few kits under your belt before trying anything too ambitious outside the original instructions. With the exception of a higher quality oak, such as Stavin oakor genuine oak barrels, I'd make it like the instructions recommend, at least until you can see how kits are supposed to taste when made according to instructions.


Are you talking about the Woodbridge Ranch 11 Cab? If so, that's a premium kit that would likely suffer from any tweaks. The additions you're asking about lend themselves better to lower priced kits.I can testify that the Woodbridge Ranch 11 Cab is very, verygood when made according to instructions and allowed to age 1-2 years.

 

[laneygirl]

I am also fairly new to wine making. I made the WE Lodi Ranch 11 Cab earlier in the year, per directions,and it's been bottled since August. Based on your question and my impatience, decided to crack one to see how it's doing. It smells pretty good, although detect a similar "nose" in the WE kits I've done so far and think that's what some people have referred to kit taste (KT). It tastes quite good and think with more months on it believe it will only improve.




It does appear to have more body than the Pinot Noir and Merlot kits I made, which were from the less expensive Origianl line in WE's kits. I have two Cellar Craft LE kits in carboys that had the crushed grape packs with them and think that will offer the type of complexity you're after. I know WE has a couple kits with those, also and just think there is an added measure the grapes/skins offer in terms of body, tannins, etc make a big difference.


I can't wait to get the CC kits in a bottle, but am trying to be patient with bulk aging, etc. Patience is hard to come by for me with this hobby. It's made me a bit OCD and I just keep buying more kits to try them, get them through the process (patiently) and into the bottle so I can see what's working and what's not.

 

[Tomy]

What you might do is when you rack to the secondary split it up into one gal. secondarys and try different tweaks to each one. Go ahead go for it. Good luck. Tomy

 

[PolishWineP]

If you want more complex flavor in your wines, go with the higher end kits. If you want more complex wines to make, try a couple of scratch wines. Country wines. Do you have any wine making books with country recipes in them? There are all sorts of recipes that start with juice from your grocer's freezer section, or fresh fruits. Even a 1 gallon batch of fresh fruit wine will be more complicated to make than a 6 gallon kit.


My 2 favorite books for ease of understandingwhat they've written are:


The Joy of Home Winemaking by Terry Garey and Making Wild Wines & Meads by Pttie Vargas & Rich Gulling.
Bert's favorite book seems to be the booklet, Winemaker's Recipe Handbook. It has over 100 recipes for only about $4. George carries all of them except the book by Garey.

 

[laneygirl]

How do wines made from frozen juice compare to kits? For example, is there a line in the WE or RJ kits that one would compare this to?


I've been on a quest for a "better" kit since I really want to get rid of the kit taste I detect with WE kits.

 

[PolishWineP]

When we age the WE kits we don't find any kit taste. We bulk age for several months, then bottle age.
The wines I make from juices are usually on the sweeter side, I call them chick wines. Others have made strictly grape concentrate wines and I'm sure they will have some good feedback for you.

 

[Wade E]

Laney, have you tried the W.E Selection Estate, these are the best W.E. has to offer. RJS's top line is the En Primeur which really doesnt have to many to choose from. I have heard only great things with the Mosti masters and even the All Juice kits and that there is no kit taste. Obviously, the Meglioli is the best. I have had one of the W.E. Selection Estate bottles(Super Tuscan) and it was awesome.

 

[Motomike]

How long do your typically bulk age your kits? I am bulk aging my Pinot right now and unfortunately have to hurry it a bit as I want to give bottles as Christmas presents so it will only bulk age for about one month. I'll definitely have to try the Super Tuscan! Is that what it is called on the box? I was in Italy this summer and sampled some awesome Super Tuscans, definitely my new favorite wine.

 

[Wade E]

Selection Estate

 

[Motomike]

Thanks, I just found my next kit.

 

[Dean]

I usually bulk age all my good premium red kits at least 1 year, and premium white kits about 6 months. But I have a LOT of carboys and space to do this. For example, last years restricted quantities (RQs from RJS) are still in the carboy, and earlier in the year, I bottled the 2005/6's. To me a carboy takes up far less space than 30 bottles do.

The whole key on these high end kits is age! It takes a while to build up, but when it does, you'll have a rolling cellar that works on a first in / first out basis. Whether you bulk age or bottle age, is all preference, laziness, and space. I like most wines aged at least 1 year. I find it takes that long for the tastes to blend, and more importantly, for a nose to develop on the wine.

 

[laneygirl]

Laney, have you tried the W.E Selection Estate, these are the best W.E. has to offer. RJS's top line is the En Primeur which really doesnt have to many to choose from. I have heard only great things with the Mosti masters and even the All Juice kits and that there is no kit taste. Obviously, the Meglioli is the best. I have had one of the W.E. Selection Estate bottles(Super Tuscan) and it was awesome.

Hi Wade,


I have made two of the WE Selection Estates: 1 Lodi Old Vines Zinfandel and Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Savignon. I bulk aged the Zin for about 6 weeks and Cab for 2+ months. I bottled them in August and so held off for 5+ months to taste the Cab and if I understand KT, which am only comparing these wines to some better store bought wines ($8-12 range) and mine don't have the nose or the complex tastes that I am hoping to get.


I maybe should bulk age longer...but figure that if I do it for a couple months and then leave it on the shelf long enough after bottling, then it'd be OK. Any further advice would be greatly appreciated.


I think the Cab tasted pretty good...but just think the WE kits I've made have a similar nose and taste. I've got two CC bulk aging now and think on the little tastes I've had in transferring display more complexity and variation that I am looking for. I plan on moving toward the CC and Megioli kits....and since I've got enough going that my cellar racks will be pretty full, I'll start bulk aging longer since I won't "need" to turn the carboy so fast.

 

[uavwmn]

I am curious. Does it matter, taste wise, if you bulk age or bottle age?
I have a Cab Shiraz in the works now and really want this to be a "giving" wine for special occasions. (Like waking up in the morning, First day of Spring, etc. hahaha)

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

I too have wondered this. Obviously bulk aging would reach a point of "done" sooner, since the volume would more than compensate for temp changes, etc. Someday I will do a double batch, age one in bottle, bulk age the other and test for differences in a year or so.

 

[Wade E]

Ive read that wine will age faster in a bottle but thats not always a good thing. As long as you are aging your bottles under good conditions (stable temp) then you will be able to drink it a little sooner. If it is not in good temps then bulk aging is the way to go as the temp changes wont effect the wine as much and give you a better end product.