3 kits(Brunello, Barolo, Malbec) Some questions

[ravelloview]

First time wine-maker
My 2 friends and I just started our first ever 3 kits this Friday. Primary fermentation steps all went smoothly and now we’re getting around to the 2nd phase for all 3. I have included the 3 kits that we bought below.

Here are some questions that I have come up with to help with future planning..

1: Mosti Mondiale All Juice Barolo


2. RJ Spagnols Cellar Classic Malbec
For first racking it says : “Squeeze out grape skins to maximize colour and tannin extraction.” I am pulling this bag out of the primary fermenter and squeezing it into the primary fermenter before siphoning into the carboy correct? I am not opening bag and squeezing grape skins into the fermenter…

3. RJ Spagnols Cru Select Brunello
What is the ageing time with these? Any extra steps that I need to take that aren’t listed in the instructions?

General questions;

We have 3 wines being made and 3 six gallon carboys that the wine will be transferred into. We also have one 6.75 gallon empty carboy and 2 empty 5 gallon carboys. When it comes to racking from the 6 gal carboy into something else (a 6 gal carboy preferably) can we rack it into the 6.75 gal carboy while we quick clean the carboy that was just used and transfer back into the 6? If we can, should we take any precautions? If we can’t can we just siphon it back into the cleaned fermenting pail while we clean the carboy and put it back.

Thanks for any help.

 

[rjb222]

First time wine-maker
My 2 friends and I just started our first ever 3 kits this Friday. Primary fermentation steps all went smoothly and now we’re getting around to the 2nd phase for all 3. I have included the 3 kits that we bought below.

Here are some questions that I have come up with to help with future planning..

1: Mosti Mondiale All Juice Barolo


2. RJ Spagnols Cellar Classic Malbec
For first racking it says : “Squeeze out grape skins to maximize colour and tannin extraction.” I am pulling this bag out of the primary fermenter and squeezing it into the primary fermenter before siphoning into the carboy correct? I am not opening bag and squeezing grape skins into the fermenter…

3. RJ Spagnols Cru Select Brunello
What is the ageing time with these? Any extra steps that I need to take that aren’t listed in the instructions?

General questions;

We have 3 wines being made and 3 six gallon carboys that the wine will be transferred into. We also have one 6.75 gallon empty carboy and 2 empty 5 gallon carboys. When it comes to racking from the 6 gal carboy into something else (a 6 gal carboy preferably) can we rack it into the 6.75 gal carboy while we quick clean the carboy that was just used and transfer back into the 6? If we can, should we take any precautions? If we can’t can we just siphon it back into the cleaned fermenting pail while we clean the carboy and put it back.

Thanks for any help.

When doing a winery series kit or one of rjs skin kits it is important to do one of two things either keep the bag of skins totally submerged through out the ferment or push the bag under every day at least once preferably a couple times a day. If you do not your skins will start to go off and add halitosis to your wine. When doing this do not squeeze the bag too hard or your wine will be very harsh.Gently is the idea here. When removing the bag sanitize a strainer and put the bag in that and allow it to naturally drip out do not squeeze the bag or again your wine will be bitter and very tannic.
When bulk aging it is super important to make sure you are topped up properly and your sulfite levels are kept up. Just before putting your airlock back on when bulk aging melt 1/4 tsp of potassium or sodium metabisulfite in a wee bit of hot water from your tap and pour that in the carboy and put on your airlock. When you top up use a similar wine do not use water your wine will be thin if you do.I hope this helps.

 

[Rocky]

You have chosen some nice wines, Grasshopper!

Regarding the Cellar Classic Malbec, yes, you squeeze the bag so that the juice and solids fall into the fermenter and the skins remain in the bag. FYI, when I make any wine with a grape pack, I squeeze it daily during primarly fermentation, for better color, taste and tannin extraction.

I have not made a red Cru Select kit and I see that they are 16 liters of juice without a grape pack. It is just a personal preference, but I always shop for red kits that have a grape pack. I find that the wine can be somewhat "thin" without one. If it were my kit, I would add a pound or two of raisins, but that is up to you.

If you are referring to the Mosti Mondiale All Juice Original (i.e. the one that comes in a bucket), the same comments as the Cru Select apply. On the other hand, I have found that the MM All Juice whites are very nice wines.

Moving back and forth between the 6.75 and 6 gallon carboys is fine, but you will probably need some wine to "top up" the 6 gallon carboy after racking because you will lose some volume due to sediment. You can either add a similar wine or go to a smaller vessel, e.g. a 5 gallon carboy. Do not top up with water. Going back into the fermenter on the first racking would be okay if you work quickly, as there is still a good deal of CO2 coming out of the wine. After that, you need to protect the wine from exposure to air.

Good luck!

 

[rjb222]

You have chosen some nice wines, Grasshopper!

Regarding the Cellar Classic Malbec, yes, you squeeze the bag so that the juice and solids fall into the fermenter and the skins remain in the bag. FYI, when I make any wine with a grape pack, I squeeze it daily during primarly fermentation, for better color, taste and tannin extraction.

I have not made a red Cru Select kit and I see that they are 16 liters of juice without a grape pack. It is just a personal preference, but I always shop for red kits that have a grape pack. I find that the wine can be somewhat "thin" without one. If it were my kit, I would add a pound or two of raisins, but that is up to you.

If you are referring to the Mosti Mondiale All Juice Original (i.e. the one that comes in a bucket), the same comments as the Cru Select apply. On the other hand, I have found that the MM All Juice whites are very nice wines.

Moving back and forth between the 6.75 and 6 gallon carboys is fine, but you will probably need some wine to "top up" the 6 gallon carboy after racking because you will lose some volume due to sediment. You can either add a similar wine or go to a smaller vessel, e.g. a 5 gallon carboy. Do not top up with water. Going back into the fermenter on the first racking would be okay if you work quickly, as there is still a good deal of CO2 coming out of the wine. After that, you need to protect the wine from exposure to air.

Good luck!

When I did this for my customers they all complained about the tannins and the bitterness of the wine. You must age your wines for quite some time to allow the tannins to smooth out.

 

[Rocky]

RJB, I assume you are referring to squeezing the bag daily, right? It has not been a problem with my wines and I squeeze them by hand. I don't think there is much danger in fracturing the seeds, thereby releasing bitter tannin. Or maybe I like tannin more than others do.

And, no, I don't age my wines for a long time. I only got back into the hobby in January 2011 and I have drunk some (in some case all) of the wine I have made.

 

[rjb222]

RJB, I assume you are referring to squeezing the bag daily, right? It has not been a problem with my wines and I squeeze them by hand. I don't think there is much danger in fracturing the seeds, thereby releasing bitter tannin. Or maybe I like tannin more than others do.

And, no, I don't age my wines for a long time. I only got back into the hobby in January 2011 and I have drunk some (in some case all) of the wine I have made.

LOL no Rocky there are certain customers of mine I make quite tannic wines for but these are extremely hard to clear and get out on time. As far as breaking the seeds you would have to really be a tough guy to get that done with out a press. I guess I am putting together the time line I have to work with and thinking can I get it done in time and with a positive comment from my customer. I learn as much from others comments and reasoning as I help others with their concerns. If one does not ask one does not learn.

 

[ravelloview]

One more question as I see the topic of bulk ageing brought up frequently Is it ok if we just follow the directions and bottle when the instructions tell us? We have every intention of ageing our wines for the appropriate amount of time for each kit. Will "newbie" wine-makers notice a difference between bulk-aging and bottling per instructions??

 

[Bartman]

One more question as I see the topic of bulk ageing brought up frequently Is it ok if we just follow the directions and bottle when the instructions tell us? We have every intention of ageing our wines for the appropriate amount of time for each kit. Will "newbie" wine-makers notice a difference between bulk-aging and bottling per instructions??

Yes, there will be a difference between bulk-aging for a year and then bottling and bottle aging for the same amount of time, but it might be too subtle for a 'newbie' to notice. I'm not trying to insult you, because you may have a well-developed appreciation for these wines, but kit/homemade wines are a little different from commercial wines and the distinctions (in kits, practices, bulk aging time, etc.) can only be appreciated by comparison to other wines you have made. So after you have made a few wines, you will start to notice those differences, but not at this stage.

If you want to start those comparisons sooner rather than later, I would get a 3-gallon carboy (or two of them), bottle half the kit now and bulk age the balance in the 3-gallon carboy to compare the final product with different types of aging.

Good choices on your three kits! I have made all three of those, although the MM AJ Barolo was a slight disappointment after comparing it directly to the MM Meglioli Barolo.

 

[Geronimo]

Halitosis wine? Do the grape skins rot or something?

I just did a 4 week primary, leaving everything alone the whole time (Winery Series Amarone with skins and dried grapes). I don't notice anything bad about it. In fact it's pretty awesome for 4 weeks old. Amarone is one of the styles that really needs several months/years to get where it needs to be.

 

[Hokapsig]

Not punching down the skins can cause bacteria to grow due to exposure to the air. My concord skins gave off a turpentine smell which went away after sulfiting.