WineXpert Wine Kit Tutorial

[geocorn]

I seem to be having trouble communicating the "clean AND sanitize" concept to new wine makers. In addition, I have been needing to update my wine kit tutorial for some time, so I have. Here is the link to the first draft:


[url]http://www.finevinewines.com/Home-Wine-Making-Tutorial-New.h tm[/url]


Any comments, suggestions and/or corrections will be warmly received and greatly appreciated.

 

[Brandst]

I like a couple of the added things from when I bought my kit, like your autosiphon will displace some of your wine. Although I should have known, I was in such a hurry to get my wine racked to the second carboy I just plunged the tube in there and wine squirted right out.A nice dark red pinot all over the wall, my work table and the floor, so much for the hurry to get it done had to clean up first.


Also, although we know how important it is and it is stressed on the boards by just about everybody,new people may notunderstand it initially.Maybe somehow highlight that EVERYTHING THAT COMES IN CONTACT WITH YOUR WINE MUST BE SANITIZED. I would imagine that the majority of your customer, especially new customers, do not even know about the boards that you offer. If they are not here at least reading or better yet participating, they are more likely to make mistakes. Maybe include a link or mention the forum in the tutorial telling people that it is a good place to learn and ask questions should they have any. I didn't find the forums till the day after I started my first kit, I relied on the information you sent me on paper and CD-ROM as well as the kits instructions to get everything started.


I thank you for having this great forum for us to come talk about our addiction and learn from others. It was your great customer service that got me to come back and make my purchase(s). You took the time to e-mail me when I did not go through with my purchase and then answered all my questions over several e-mails quickly and professionaly. Although I didn't purchase for a month or so after, it was this attention that won me over as a customer for life. Keep that kind of service up and keep trying to make things better and you'll continue to win customers. Asking customers their opinion on something you are doing for them is something that is sorely missing in this day and age.


Steve

 

[OilnH2O]

Amen to Steve's comments, George.


I might add that the confusion for us newbies can come with similar names for different products. Smurfe's great tutorial number 1 mentions "No Rinse 1 step sanitizer" and even shows a picture of it, if I recall correctly. I saw at my local shop the next daya "One Step, No Rinse" and thought "AHA!" and picked it up and used it during my first kit thinking it was a sanitizer. But it is acleanser (made by Logic, distributed by Steinbart). I used itfor several steps before I realized THEY WERE NOT THE SAME! (At least, it says "cleanser" in the fine print!)


So, even when you THINK you are religiously adherring to the CLEAN AND SANITIZE mantra -- you might not be.... And, I've seen posts that say people use "One Step" and "Straight A" and other brands "without rinsing" discussing whether it "leaves a taste" and, thus,it implies it is introduced directly into the wine-making process. Aren't these cleansers? Are they REALLY being usedfor the sanitizing?If they are, is that okay???


I think if you can clear it all up, you'll be helping a lot!

 

[pkcook]

Bravo George,


I've been making wine for about a year now and I always used only the One Step or Straight A product as a cleanser/sanitizer. I have been successful up to this point, I'm sure by pure luck. I just recently purchased a 1 qt spray bottle and used one of my gallon jugs to make up the K Meta solution.


Your tutorial is straight forward, clear and concise. Only wish I had read it a year ago, but Grandma always said, "Your never too old to learn." I read everything I can find on wine/mead making, and I have to say this forum has provided more information than all the books I've read and all the internet sites I've browsedcombined.


Thanks,


Pat

 

[geocorn]

The cleaning and sanitizing was the catalyst for the re-write. I have had the re-write on my to do list for some time, but it became clear this week that I needed to be more "anal" on this topic.


I appreciate your feedback and will add your suggestions to the final version.

 

[earl]

George


Did you get the couple of bottles I sent yet??


earl

 

[smurfe]

Amen to Steve's comments, George.


I might add that the confusion for us newbies can come with similar names for different products. Smurfe's great tutorial number 1 mentions "No Rinse 1 step sanitizer" and even shows a picture of it, if I recall correctly. I saw at my local shop the next daya "One Step, No Rinse" and thought "AHA!" and picked it up and used it during my first kit thinking it was a sanitizer. But it is acleanser (made by Logic, distributed by Steinbart). I used itfor several steps before I realized THEY WERE NOT THE SAME! (At least, it says "cleanser" in the fine print!)


So, even when you THINK you are religiously adherring to the CLEAN AND SANITIZE mantra -- you might not be.... And, I've seen posts that say people use "One Step" and "Straight A" and other brands "without rinsing" discussing whether it "leaves a taste" and, thus,it implies it is introduced directly into the wine-making process. Aren't these cleansers? Are they REALLY being usedfor the sanitizing?If they are, is that okay???


I think if you can clear it all up, you'll be helping a lot!

The Easy Clean One Step is a sanitizer, at least thats what it says on the label of my container.


Smurfe

 

[pkcook]

I went to Logic's web site and cut this portion from their info concerning "One Step":


What is the difference between a sanitizer and a cleanser?


In the U.S.A., "sanitizer" is a legal term defined by the Environmental Protection Agency. In order for a product to be called a sanitizer in promotional literature or on its packaging, that product must be approved by the EPA, assigned a registration number, and have an open file maintained with the EPA. Unless a company would like to invest an enormous amount of capitol in this process (or use another company's product through a process called "sub-registration"), they may not call their product a sanitizer.


If you purchase a bottle of bleach from the grocery store, unless it shows an EPA registration number on the front of the label, it is not a sanitizer. However, it will certainly be a good cleanser (although somewhat hazardous, not environmentally sound, and it will require rinsing).


Is One Step a sanitizer?


Read the above question and draw your own conclusions. One Step has been used with excellent results since 1992.


If I interpret this correctly, One Step "IS" a sanitizer by the nature of whatdoesand how it does it, but the company did not wish to invest the money to register with the EPA that would have authorized them to put the term "sanitizer" on the package or in their advertisement.As I said before, I have used this product "alone" forthe last year on 10 or sobatches of wine on everything and have not lost a batch (except the watermelon, which Idon't believe was due to cleanliness/sanitary conditions).Although I am now paranoid and use K Meta after the One Step cleansing, I believe one could safely use it alone and still be safe.


My two cents,


PatEdited by: pkcook

 

[geocorn]

pk,


I think they obviously want you to come to that conclusion and allow them to save the money, unfortunately, I have had too many customers only use 1-step, EasyClean and B-Brite and have a failure. Until I can "Guarantee" that any of these products is a sanitizers, I am going to stress the importance of using K-Meta. For the amount of money that my customers have invested in their wines, I want them to have success, each and every time. The only way I can do that is to encourage them to follow sound principles.


In addition, if the product does not say "sanitizer", then how can I convince my customers that it is a sanitizer. As an aside, both Winexpert and LD Carlson recommend using both a cleanser and a sanitizer. EasyClean is LD Carlson's version of the oxygen based cleanser and they tell me that it is NOT a sanitizer.


I think using any of these products will work 99% of the time, but that rate is not high enough for me. Iwillnot accept any failure of a wine kit from not cleaning and sanitizing. The time it takes to sanitize, after cleaning is a very small price to guarantee the sucess of your wine. I think any other approach to this issue is unsupportable as a retailer and could be conceived as "deceptive."


I will change my tune when anybody's product will state on the container the word "sanitizer". Until then, it's K-Meta.

 

[djcoop]

I use both. I wash w/ easy clean, rinse. I spray down my counters (and hands) and table w/ k-meta and lay the clean, rinsed products in this area only. Then I spray everything w/ k-meta (or if it is a carboy, pour k-meta in there and swish all around). I do not rinse after k-meta.

 

[pkcook]

DJ,


I started using the K Meta after reading the discussion on this forum. As George said the 1% chance isn't worth it when the K Meta solution is so cheap. I pretty much do the same thing as you, wash with Oxygen Cleaner, rinse, and either spray or dip everything in K Meta.

 

[OilnH2O]

Let me reiterate that SMURFE's tutorial is absolutely EXCELLENT! And I want to insure I think we are talking about two different products here -- I think!


I said: Smurfe's great tutorial number 1 mentions "No Rinse 1 step sanitizer" and even shows a picture of it... I saw at my local shop the next daya "One Step, No Rinse" and thought "AHA!" and picked it up and used it during my first kit thinking it was a sanitizer. But it is acleanser (made by Logic, distributed by Steinbart).


[/QUOTE]


The Easy Clean One Step is a sanitizer, at least thats what it says on the label of my container.


Smurfe

[/QUOTE]


Smurfe'spicture of the bottle of "No rinse, one step sanitizer" must not be what I THOUGHT was the same and then bought, called "One Step, No Rinse CLeanser" (by Logic)


Note the two phrases are REVERSED--


My point is that the confusion of words and maybe even of products might be a point to consider, George in your tutorial. It may be Smurfe's product is NOT by Logic and truly IS a sanitizer -- the label is pretty clear in the picture, and it says 'sanitizer'! The One Step (by Logic) I have, on the label says "cleanser." Pat's info from their website is accurate -- Smurfe must have a completely different product, but with a similar name!

 

[smurfe]

Let me reiterate that SMURFE's tutorial is absolutely EXCELLENT! And I want to insure I think we are talking about two different products here -- I think!


I said: Smurfe's great tutorial number 1 mentions "No Rinse 1 step sanitizer" and even shows a picture of it... I saw at my local shop the next daya "One Step, No Rinse" and thought "AHA!" and picked it up and used it during my first kit thinking it was a sanitizer. But it is acleanser (made by Logic, distributed by Steinbart).

The Easy Clean One Step is a sanitizer, at least thats what it says on the label of my container.


Smurfe

[/QUOTE]


Smurfe'spicture of the bottle of "No rinse, one step sanitizer" must not be what I THOUGHT was the same and then bought, called "One Step, No Rinse CLeanser" (by Logic)


Note the two phrases are REVERSED--


My point is that the confusion of words and maybe even of products might be a point to consider, George in your tutorial. It may be Smurfe's product is NOT by Logic and truly IS a sanitizer -- the label is pretty clear in the picture, and it says 'sanitizer'! The One Step (by Logic) I have, on the label says "cleanser." Pat's info from their website is accurate -- Smurfe must have a completely different product, but with a similar name!





[/QUOTE]


After reading all of this I don't really know what I have LOL. I have used this stuff since day one. What ever was in the starter kit I got from George is what I still use today. Guess I can switch to K-Meata to play it safe.


Steve

 

[OilnH2O]

Smurfe --


Here is a pic of the stuff I have -- it is pretty clear to me that it is different from the picture (ofwhat YOU have)in your EXCELLENT tutorial! (Did I say the tutorial was excellent? It is!)

 

[Brandst]

The bottle of Easy Clean that I purchased from George last month says that it is a "No Rinse Cleanser". Although I have seen it online at various sites listed as a one step cleaner & sanitizer, it makes no mention on the bottle that I have. To play it safe I am using the Easy Clean to clean with and Sodium Metabisulfite to sanitize. With such a small difference in price between the 2 meta's though I will stick with K-meta in the future so I don't have 2 different ones just sitting around.





Steve

 

[smurfe]

Smurfe --


Here is a pic of the stuff I have -- it is pretty clear to me that it is different from the picture (ofwhat YOU have)in your EXCELLENT tutorial! (Did I say the tutorial was excellent? It is!)

I dunno if that is the same stuff or not. I believe the stuff I use has been re-packaged buy the retailer. One container says Easy Clean SANITIZER and the other says One Step SANITIZER. I did not buy those particular products from George, they were given to me by a local winemaker who retired from the hobby. They came from AHB according to the label. I looked on their website and it says it is a sanitizer but who knows if that is accurate or not. It IS the same stuff though that George included in the starter kit I bought from him.


Smurfe

 

[smurfe]

This is the stuff I use http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdDetA.asp?PartNumber=6019BThe packages I have have been repacked but the stuff in there is the same as this.


Smurfe