Mosti Mondiale Why does Mosti say to wait to add oak and to rack early?

[milbrosa]

Instructions in Mosti wines are quite different from the WE and CC wine kits I've made. I don't have experience with other kit brands, and I don't have a great deal of experience in general. I just wonder why Mosti is so different, and whether it would be OK to treat them like the kits from WE or CC.

Other kits have you add some or all of the oak (usually chips or dust) at the beginning when you pitch the yeast, then let fermentation complete or at least get down below 1.000 before racking to secondary. If oak cubes are included in these kits, they are typically added after first racking.

By contract, Mosti withholds all of the oak until the SG is down to around 1.040. First racking occurs at that time, and then the oak is added to secondary.

So I have a couple of questions.

Is the reason for withholding the oak until first racking because the racking is done around 1.040, well before fermentation is complete? My surmise is that waiting until first racking to add the oak ensures that the wine remains in contact with the oak for a longer period of time than it would if it were added at the beginning.

If grape packs or raisins are added to primary, and first racking is at 1.040, then contact time is reduced for them too. Wouldn't it be preferable to have them in contact with the wine longer?

Why not just add the oak and the grapes or raisins at the start, as with the other kits, and let primary fermentation complete down below 1.000 before first racking?

 

[ibglowin]

Depends on the type of oak included with the kit. The oak sawdust is usually added when you pitch the yeast as the yeast will actually do a number on the oak and try and process it along with the grape juice. This effectively incorporates the oak into the wine in a very different way than just by traditional ethanol extraction. Chips and or beans are usually added in secondary as you want high amounts of ethanol to extract all the compounds out of the oak and into the wine via that method. Extraction will take longer thus if you rack at 1.04 and let the wine ferment to dry and hold it there for the ~ 2 weeks or so everything will be gone with chips. Beans take longer since they are thicker but they leave it up to the winemaker to leave in a little longer or pull when you fine and stabilize. Most folks are happy with the levels at just the 2 weeks of contact time.

 

[milbrosa]

Ok, so that confirms my thoughts about the oak and sheds some new light for me on why some kits contain sawdust instead of chips.

Now what about the grape skins or raisins? The CC kit I just started says that extending primary to delay racking for a couple of days is beneficial because the skins remain in contact with the wine longer. With the Mosti Amarone kit I just started, the skins from the grape pack will spend much less time in contact with the wine.

I observed that the grape skins supplied by Mosti for the Amarone are more greatly macerated than the ones that CC provides. So that would increase the surface area of the grape skins exposed to wine. Mosti also supplies more of them than CC. Maybe both of those factors make up for the shorter contact time in the Mosti kit.

 

[robie]

I observed that the grape skins supplied by Mosti for the Amarone are more greatly macerated than the ones that CC provides. So that would increase the surface area of the grape skins exposed to wine. Mosti also supplies more of them than CC. Maybe both of those factors make up for the shorter contact time in the Mosti kit.

This pretty much answers your own question.

I understand you are trying to learn and compare, which is good. You mentioned you were sort of new at this (paraphrased). In the end, if I were you, I would just follow the instructions for each individual kit. Once you get experienced, you can start altering your methods. At that time you will have developed your own style, likes, and dislikes.

 

[rawlus]

Not really a big kit person, but in the early days I found the results from mosti all juice kits of higher general quality than concentrate kits. This is a subjective point of view of course. I agree with the others however that kits, because they are processed goods in one way, shape or form, it is best to follow instructions for the specific kit rather than trying to maintain the same process for kits processed in different ways by different manufacturers... Oak dust is often added at primary for reasons other than oak character in the wine. Good luck with your Mosti kit!

 

[milbrosa]

I understand you are trying to learn and compare, which is good. You mentioned you were sort of new at this (paraphrased). In the end, if I were you, I would just follow the instructions for each individual kit. Once you get experienced, you can start altering your methods. At that time you will have developed your own style, likes, and dislikes.

That's what I'm doing. I'm following the instructions for each kit, and that's what I've done for all the kits I've made in the past. Except that I'll bulk condition longer than the minimum time that the kit makers specify before bottling. I'm just trying to understand why the differences among kit instructions are so profound. It's all pretty much the same raw materials. Stabilized and acid balanced grape juice, yeast, bentonite, sorbate, k-meta, maybe grape skins, maybe raisins, maybe yeast nutrient, maybe oak, and some sort of clearing agents. Not so different in terms of materials, so why such different processes?

I find it to be more trouble to follow the Mosti instructions because I have to monitor the SG more frequently in order to avoid overshooting the 1.040 SG for first racking. I can let the other kits go a week before having to check the SG because they ferment out completely, or nearly so, before first racking.

 

[robie]

That's what I'm doing. I'm following the instructions for each kit, and that's what I've done for all the kits I've made in the past. Except that I'll bulk condition longer than the minimum time that the kit makers specify before bottling. I'm just trying to understand why the differences among kit instructions are so profound. It's all pretty much the same raw materials. Stabilized and acid balanced grape juice, yeast, bentonite, sorbate, k-meta, maybe grape skins, maybe raisins, maybe yeast nutrient, maybe oak, and some sort of clearing agents. Not so different in terms of materials, so why such different processes?

I find it to be more trouble to follow the Mosti instructions because I have to monitor the SG more frequently in order to avoid overshooting the 1.040 SG for first racking. I can let the other kits go a week before having to check the SG because they ferment out completely, or nearly so, before first racking.

I hear you. There probably aren't any good reasons for the differences, other than they represent the preferences of the kit makers' pros. If you have ever made a WineXpert kit, you will find they also are a little different than the others.

Just understand that the time to move from primary to secondary represents the point where oxygen should be kept from the wine. The exact point is not as important as your sealing up the wine with an air lock when it gets somewhere between 1.040 and 1.010. I like 1.020 for reds, 1.040 for whites. At these lower SG's, the level of activity has slowed, so not as much CO2 is being produced, requiring that oxygen access be limited.

Me, I just go with the flow. Now that I have been doing this for several years, I sort of change things up a bit, based on my own experience. As long as one understands what is needed, it is not unreasonable to do this.

One thing else, if you don't follow the directions, the warranty will become null and void, should the kit not turn out.

 

[milbrosa]

Thanks robie. Personally, I'm ok with voiding a warranty if I decide to do something my own way. The key, in my mind, is if I made a decision to go off the beaten path. Then the consequences are on me.

But I also don't want to waste my time, which is really much more valuable to me than the money I spend on a kit, so I'll continue to stick with the instructions until I'm confident enough to trust my own inclinations.