when good wines gone bad

[Renee]

Oh Thank you Shawn for your comments but it is Ms. Renee. There are so many comments made about my bringing up the subject I am surprised actually at the level of vitirol directed towards me. Being accused of Bashing an entire forum probably is the worst of them. I certainly can try to address some of these concerns. As to me saying an inferior base I was thinking if you all were able to obtain the best grapes would you still find the need to use and apply these unconventional processes and additions. You can certainly see why I would think this way as fine elegant wines don't for the most part use these techniques. As for me saying, seemingly strange practice, not real winemaking, or would not pass for the real thing. These are not my words so I have no way of responding but I should not be accused of saying them. And seriously if you want to reduce wines made from the best grapes on Earth as simply snobbery, well if that was conventional wisdom I would be out of a job. I want to thank Joe's wine for a very nice message he sent me. Thank you Joe you are a gentleman. Others not so much.

 

[bkisel]

Renee, In my post I said nothing un-gentlemanly. Can I assume by "Others" you mean some others and not all others?

Thanks...

 

[Renee]

Yes you are correct in thinking I was not referring to you. Please understand I never expected this level of attack and I have to admit if you would pardon me I forgot your original post. Thank you.

 

[roger80465]

"As for me saying, seemingly strange practice, not real winemaking, or would not pass for the real thing. These are not my words so I have no way of responding but I should not be accused of saying them."

Here are the quotes being referenced: Post 790 'But I do see somewhat the point which is your goal as Home Wine Makers is not to replicate fine elegant wines but to add ingredients to an inferior base which would never be used in real wine production to arrive at a product which some might find comfortable to consume. You may be successful at that but I doubt any of it would pass for the real thing.'

Hope this jogs your memory. You're welcome.

 

[Renee]

"As for me saying, seemingly strange practice, not real winemaking, or would not pass for the real thing. These are not my words so I have no way of responding but I should not be accused of saying them."

Here are the quotes being referenced: Post 790 'But I do see somewhat the point which is your goal as Home Wine Makers is not to replicate fine elegant wines but to add ingredients to an inferior base which would never be used in real wine production to arrive at a product which some might find comfortable to consume. You may be successful at that but I doubt any of it would pass for the real thing.'

Hope this jogs your memory. You're welcome.

Yes taken out of context seems to be more important than the real issue. One is what is the goal of Home Wine Makers. Obviously unlike other hobbies many of you are happy with producing less than what would be expected in the commercial arena. This alone is not common for people engaged in a hobby usually the opposite is the case. As far as an inferior base this addresses the need to take extraordinary measures to produce something which most likely is not accepted commercially because you are starting with a foundation which is not really up to par. No fault of your own necessarily. And sadly when the rubber meets the road in the world of marketing and judging there is really reason to expect the product you defend would have no chance of being accepted. I don't make the rules it is just the world I live in. You are welcome as well.

 

[ibglowin]

We return you now to your regularly scheduled WMT programming……….

 

[peaches9324]

renee what is your issue? We're all here to come together and share experience and wisdom, we have real life chemist, biologist, mathematicians and so forth. This is a friendly environment to share knowledge, ask questions, get advice to make the BEST and in all your post you questioned our ability from washing bottles "and if there is still mold in them we throw them out!" to taking something you clearly wrote out of context and btw if you were to post your address I'm sure you would have enough great wine to last you a life time!

 

[sour_grapes]

Turock, did you, by any wild chance, break into the cellar between posts #795 and #799? ::

 

[sour_grapes]

"As for me saying, seemingly strange practice, not real winemaking, or would not pass for the real thing. These are not my words so I have no way of responding but I should not be accused of saying them."

Here are the quotes being referenced: Post 790 'But I do see somewhat the point which is your goal as Home Wine Makers is not to replicate fine elegant wines but to add ingredients to an inferior base which would never be used in real wine production to arrive at a product which some might find comfortable to consume. You may be successful at that but I doubt any of it would pass for the real thing.'

Hope this jogs your memory. You're welcome.

Thanks for covering for me, Roger. All of the words I put in quotation marks were, in fact, direct quotes.

Mike, I love the test pattern!!

 

[Putterrr]

Ms Renee

In any forum dealing with any topic or hobby, your comments would illicit a negative response as you do tar everyone with the same brush. Dont assume everyone is the same and does their hobby for the same reasons and I wont assume you speak for all Sommelier's .

You are entiltled to your opinion as are we. I encourage you to express that opinion but would only ask that you do it in a separate post/topic so that those of us that read Joe's posts for his unique brand of manipulating kits can do it without the off topic stuff. Thx

cheers

 

[reefman]

Wow, two banning in one week. It must be the upcoming Halloween holidays or a full moon somewhere.

Anyway, to comment on the discussion, isn't it true that commercial wineries are not permitted to make the tweaks that have been discussed here?

 

[peaches9324]

to moderaters

out of respect for joe would it be possible to move these comments to a separate thread lets maybe title it banned so that future members can see where this kind of etiquette will lead you?

thank you for your consideration

anyone second this motion?

 

[Runningwolf]

Wow, two banning in one week. It must be the upcoming Halloween holidays or a full moon somewhere.

Anyway, to comment on the discussion, isn't it true that commercial wineries are not permitted to make the tweaks that have been discussed here?

Yes that is true. They have to send in their recipe for approval. Any additions like chocolate or anything else is a real pain to submit because you need all the info and origin of that product also.

 

[peaches9324]

Wow, two banning in one week. It must be the upcoming Halloween holidays or a full moon somewhere.

Anyway, to comment on the discussion, isn't it true that commercial wineries are not permitted to make the tweaks that have been discussed here?

I missed the first banning was he/she a new member?

 

[geek]

I missed the first banning was he/she a new member?

I missed both....

 

[Enologo]

out of respect for joe would it be possible to move these comments to a separate thread lets maybe title it banned so that future members can see where this kind of etiquette will lead you?

thank you for your consideration

anyone second this motion?

I would agree, this is a major hyjack of Joe's thread. It would also be helpful to clarify why the person was banned to give folks a better understanding of what is and is not acceptable although in the last two cases it was painfully obvious.

 

[roger80465]

Yes taken out of context seems to be more important than the real issue. One is what is the goal of Home Wine Makers. Obviously unlike other hobbies many of you are happy with producing less than what would be expected in the commercial arena. This alone is not common for people engaged in a hobby usually the opposite is the case. As far as an inferior base this addresses the need to take extraordinary measures to produce something which most likely is not accepted commercially because you are starting with a foundation which is not really up to par. No fault of your own necessarily. And sadly when the rubber meets the road in the world of marketing and judging there is really reason to expect the product you defend would have no chance of being accepted. I don't make the rules it is just the world I live in. You are welcome as well.

Hard to take 'out of context' when it is a direct quote. Anyone can look at the post and see it is quite contextual. You may be making a valid point but overshadowed by your pomposity.

 

[roger80465]

Thanks for covering for me, Roger. All of the words I put in quotation marks were, in fact, direct quotes.

Mike, I love the test pattern!!

Glad to do it. This forum is not about wine snobbery and such attitudes drive me batspit crazy. "Elegant" wine is determined by palate, not education. I rather like some 2 buck Chuck but some pricey wines leave me wanting 2 buck Chuck. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[codeman]

Rofl reading the last several posts.

http://stjaxn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Get-off-your-high-horse.jpg

 

[joeswine]

Thinking outside the box

wow! Did that get out of control or what? And wasn't he here before and did the same thing a few years ago?wow!