WineXpert What’s a good concentrate for a wine snob

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

winesnob

Senior Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Messages
135
Reaction score
0
I have a collect and enjoy nice Bordeaux, Rhone, and bold Aussie wines as well as white Burgundies. I haven't made wine before, but I've made beer many times so the process should be almost transparent to me. What concentrates are out there that would be close to my above tastes?

thanks
 
Winesnob:


First I will give you my basic advice. Call and talk to George. He not only makes the kits, but gets feedback from everyone here.


Second, I'm pretty sure the higher end reds (I'm more of a red wine fan) will best suit you. These need to age a bit more than the others, but they have more juice and solids in them - they usually run $100 and up - but the added costdivided by 30 bottles - that is not a lot more to pay. The Crushendo series is great - but the addition of skins makes the first racking a challenge. I have 3 of them and each time it has been a different experience. But I'm ready to start another once the super-Tuscan kit comes out. The Oregon Pinot is a good one as well. One thing I have found being a long time wine drinker, is that there is real value in bulk aging with oak cubes 3-6 months. Even with this aging, I rarely notice the oak as much as most commercial red wines.


Good luck and have fun. As you may hear a lot on this forum, the hobby can be very addicting - and rewarding!
 
Start searching the wine supply sites for a high end kit. Buy whatever extra equipment you need and dive in. There are a quite a few kits that will fill your needs from many manufacturers.
 
For reds, try one of the Syrah based grape skin kits (WinExpert
Chrusendo, RJ Spagnols Cellar Craft Winery Series, or Cellar Craft).
Dealing with the skins during racking can be more difficult but they
will add the addtional depth and body which you enjoy. As you well
know, wine takes time to reach its potential and kit wine is no
exception. These kits will need extended aging time, at least a year or
more.



For whites, take your pick of any of the higer end (15/16L) kits. These will work well and can be enjoyed as early as 6 months.



For your first few kits, I'd recommend following the instructions to
the letter with the exception of degassing. Get yourself a Fizz-X
stirrer (sold by FineVineWines) and use it to whip the CO2 out of your
wine before bottling (Several sessions may be needed). Trapped CO2 in
kit wines is the number one issue (followed closely by drinking too
early) with kits not living up to thier potential.



One note: I know a lot of beer kits make 5 gals. Kit wines make 6 gals (23L) so you need at least one 6 gal carboy.



Good luck and enjoy!

Edited by: Peter R Lynch
 
Thanks for your posts. It sounds like I can make a pretty descent wine from these kits.

I do have one 6.5 gallon carboy, it looks like I might need another. As far as long term aging, how long do people age it for in their final racking?

thanks
 
Winesnob:


Wine kits make exactly 6 gallons - so you may want to buy at least 1 6 gal carboy - eventually you may end up with many more - carboys are like rabbits. The 6.5 may work OK for the initial racking from the primary because it is still fermenting and creating a blanket of CO2. After that if you stay with the 6.5, you will have to top up with more wine. I usually use 1/2 to 1 bottle of wine for topping for each kit.


My own preference for starter materials is the starter kit George sells, plus a Stir-X, and extra carboy, and a Buon Vista bottler - but to each his own.


For reds, I usually age the wine 4- 6 months in a carboy with some oak cubes - 2-3 oz. I always rack at least once in the process to clear out remaining sediment and check my oak flavoring. The oak often adds more body than actual oak flavors. I will not touch a red (expect for tastings as I rack) for 6-8 months total time - bulk and bottle aging. After that I may drink a bottle a month, thus most will be over 1 year aged before drinking. I find it fun to see how it progresses in taste and complexity as it ages. Also, if you plan to age, the general recommendation is to add 1/4 tsp of K-metasulfite before bottling. I often give the wine a stir at some later rackings, but I always let the wine sit for the last couple of weeks before bottling.


This site is full of tutorials and information, but keep in mind that reading and following the instructions is important. Be patient with you time, except for the racking from the primary.


Again, if you haven't talked to George at Finevinewines, you should. He has great insight, and won't sell you things you don't need.
 
Welcome winesnob,


A 6.5 gallon carboy will not work well for making a kit wine unless you plan to top off with at least 1/2 gallon of store bought wine when you get to the stabilizing/fining step. You need at least one 6 gallon carboy and a 7.9 gallon primary fermenter to be successful every time! Please take a few minutes and read through our wine making tutorial as it will explain how wine is made from kits.


http://www.finevinewines.com/Home-Wine-Making-Tutorial.htm


TheWinexpert link has plenty of info in the description column which explains the type of wine it makesand it compares to other kits and commercial wine.


http://www.finevinewines.com/ProdListA.asp?GC_Category=Juice
 
Winesnob.

My most successful white has been an Australian Murray River Reserve.
Wonderful flavor. You might put that on your list of kits to consider.
 
Great advice so far. If you are TRULY a winesnob, you can and will be impressed with what you can make in your own home if you follow some advice.


First as most have said, give George a call and tell him what you like to drink. There will be a kit for what you like. Some kit names are kinda funky so if you haven't been in this hobby a bit, you may not know what a particular kit is (Like the 2005 WE LE kits, funky names there) He can offer you exactly what you are looking for.


Second, obtain the proper equipment to make your wine. You don't need all the stuff many of us have but for those that make a lot, the better the equipment, the easier and faster we can do our tasks. Does it make any better wine? No, not at all, it is basically convenience factors. Get the proper size carboy and bucket, a racking cane, a hydrometer, some hose, a big spoon, some type of corker, some corks,some bottles and some sanitizer. Others might say a few other things are critical as well such as a thermometer but if you let the must sit in the bucket for a day prior to pitching the yeast and your homes temp is 70, it should be close to 70 in the bucket.


Third, after you make your wine and get it bottled, put it away in a decent setting. Protect it from light, vibration and temperature fluctuations. Leave it for a couple years and you will be blown away. I promise. I drank a 2002 Sterling Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon last night that is a $70.00 bottle of wine. I would say most "wine snobs" will appreciate a $70.00 bottle of wine most any day. It was a very good wine but nothing compared to a 2004 Cabernet Savignon that someone brought to Winestock. (Gosh I wish I could remember who brought that wine, I am almost obsessed with it as it was so good) That wine more than likely cost less than $5.00 to make.


I tasted numerous great wines that night. The Cab as mentioned, a great Stags Leap Merlot, as well as many others. The ones that were a couple years in the bottle were knock your socks off. The younger ones were good but I noticed that extra year made all the difference.


Of coursethat doesn't mean they have been in the bottle that long but the average home winemaker will label when theymade and bottled as opposed to the vintage year which is normally all the same though as the kits are extremely fresh materials.


So WineSnob, come, join us, enjoy. You won't be disappointed if you can follow a few simple directions and exhibit some extreme patience in waiting for you "baby" to grow up. As I sit here, I stare at my wine rack that is full of bottles that I won't start enjoying the full potential till next year. I have a few lower end kits that are sooner drinking and actually quite good. They are equivalent and many better than your average grocery store wines such as Yellow Tail or Red Truck. Good for their intentions and shouldn't be looked down upon. I am actually a huge fan of the Vintners Reserve kits.


I hope we have answered your questions and helped move another wine lover from a buyer and drinker to a maker, sharer and drinker. We love to share our experiences, good and bad and help steer the less knowledgeable toward the path toward success and enjoyment!


Smurfe
smiley1.gif
 
Thanks, I just ordered the Crushendo Santa Ynez Valley Syrah. It looks like my kind of wine. The next two I'll try are the: Crushendo Montagnac Vieux Chateau d’Oc and the French Chardonnay.


I'm sure my wife will appreciate them. I hope I will as well. Hopefully I'll have the French Chardonnay ready for next summer.
 
Peter R Lynch said:
For reds, try one of the Syrah based grape skin kits (WinExpert Chrusendo, RJ Spagnols Cellar Craft Winery Series, or Cellar Craft). Dealing with the skins during racking can be more difficult but they will add the addtional depth and body which you enjoy.


I am getting ready to start my first batch w/ skins (the Celler Craft Rosso Fortissimo). What is the main challenge with the skins and do you have any helpful hints as to how to head them off and prevent or deal with?


Thanks a million!
 
djcoop said:
Peter R Lynch said:
For reds, try one of the Syrah based grape skin kits (WinExpert Chushendo, RJ Spagnols Cellar Craft Winery Series, or Cellar Craft). Dealing with the skins during racking can be more difficult but they will add the addtional depth and body which you enjoy.


I am getting ready to start my first batch w/ skins (the Celler Craft Rosso Fortissimo). What is the main challenge with the skins and do you have any helpful hints as to how to head them off and prevent or deal with?


Thanks a million!


DJ, just follow the directions. With those kits, there should be a mesh bag you put the skins in. Make up the kit as normal and lower the bag into the Must. It will float so you will need to punch it down daily. Some people will take like a heavy plate or other glass dish and tie the bag to it. It will sink and pull the bag under the must to get 100% skin to liquid contact.


What I did with mine was put on a pair of latex gloves. I had them everywhere since I was a paramedic. Just spray some sanitizer on them first and pick up that bag and give it a squeeze particularly on the last day before you rack to glass. This enabled the solids to be extracted of the skins and into the must.


This has been the best kit I have ever made. I just read in the Winemaker Magazine (on the back cover)that the next Wine Expert Crushendo will be this same type of wine. I guess it comes out in June and I will definitely get this one. Everyone raves that the WE kits grape packs are superior. If they are better than this kit was, I will be tickled pink.


Smurfe
smiley1.gif
 
I have made two of the Cellar Craft Yakima Valley Syrah kits and the consistency of the grape skin packwas quite different than the Winexpert Crushendo. The Crushendo was more like jam and the Cellar Craft was larger pieces and many stems and seeds.


Transferring from the primary to the secondary was much easier with the Cellar Craft than the Crushendo due to the larger pieces. I actually racked off all the liquid and then poured the remainder into another primary lined with a large straining bag. then I squeezed all the juice from the skins with the sanitized glove method as Smurf described.
 
Smurf:


George has told me that he plans on having a June combo special of the new Crushendo Super Tuscan and the Staggs Leap Merlot. I've heard a lot of good things about the Staggs Leap. I'm starting to save my pennies now for that one.
 
Another way of keeping the skins down is to put in marbles (sanitized of course). I used this technique when I made beer (for the hops).
 
Just a friendly reminder: The instructions and some methods of making a Cellar Craft kit with skins and a Winexpert Crushendo are not the same.


Most importantly is the fact that use a straining bag for the grape skins is not recommended with a Crushendo kit and transferring the skins from the primary to the secondary is also not recommended.


All the benefit from theCrushendo skins are extracted in the primary and using them after that will only extract harsh and bitter tannins.
 
maize said:
Smurf:


George has told me that he plans on having a June combo special of the new Crushendo Super Tuscan and the Stags Leap Merlot. I've heard a lot of good things about the Staggs Leap. I'm starting to save my pennies now for that one.


Combo as meaning you have to buy both for the "special" price? I hope not cause I brought a Stags Leap home with me from Winestock. Either way,I am pretty sure I will pick up the Super Tuscan kit.Of course I need to get the 3 kits I have sitting here waiting for available carboys going as well.


Smurfe
smiley1.gif
 
Smurf:


Yes, I think this is will be a buy both price, but George usually has a deal on a crushendo when it comes out.


I try to control my habit by limiting my carboys to 7 - but I only have 1 in the waiting line right now and 2 to bottle whenever I find the time.
 
Hmmm.. my husband is getting a bonus, guess what it is going towards?? It's the best piece of news I've heard all day, for me and George
smiley36.gif
.


Oh, Smurfe, I have gloves too, as I am a hair colour expert
smiley36.gif
. Sorry, I'm crackin' myself up!!!!
 

Latest posts

Back
Top