WineXpert WE says "Don't top up"

[NoSnob]

I know this is an old thread but we face decisions on this every time we make a WE kit. I'm trying to understand the issues involved. WE is concerned with the inconsistent products that sometimes resulted from topping up in the fining & clarifying stage. And they want winemakers to pay more attention to racking & de-gassing as well. Note that WE recognizes that long-term aging requires a topped up carboy.

Understandably, some find the change a bit troubling. It makes us wonder why the juice in kits needs to be made by different rules than we use when making wine from fruit or varietal juice. Here's my recommendation on this:

They make the kits & want the best product, so when making WE kits, we should follow their instructions [or be aware of the possible risk in not doing so.]

When making wine from fruit or juice, we follow our rules.

NS

 

[Runningwolf]

NoSnob I mostly agree with you. They already and tested the kits. They will do everything they can to make the consumer a success to create a repeat customer. So, follow the instructions. The bit about not topping up, I'm not buying it. I say top up and make good sense of what you use or scale down to a smaller vessel.

With that said, once you understand the process and consequences of straying away from the instructions the fun begins. The four week fruit kits are a lot of fun to tweak.

 

[bstnh1]

All the WE kit instructions produced since early 2013 say don't top up during the fermentation and clearing process. The instructions also state if you're going to leave the finished wine in a carboy beyond that, to top up with a similar wine and replace the airlock with a solid bung. Adding water to top up once or twice during the winemaking process waters it down, reduces the ABV, upsets the balance, etc. I'm sure that's why the change was made.

 

[Bob007]

Put this comment on another thread about topping but wanted to place it here also. I'm unsure if the amount of space in my carboy is excessive or normal...and wondering if I'm ok to follow instructions and not top up with wine. I wouldn't use water.

Step four today with my Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot...racking and clarifying. I only have one carboy, so I racked into the primary bucket, stirred for about 5 minutes, no bubbles whatsoever, and then racked back into the carboy. Instructions say "do not top with water, as it will change the character of your wine...your wine will not oxidize or spoil during the time remaining to bottling...Leave wine 28 days to finish clarifying."

I attached a photo to show how much space is at the top of the carboy. I transferred, at each step, as much wine as possible...sometimes allowing a little bit of sediment to come through the hose. I'm thinking I'm should just follow instructions and leave it as is. There were Star San bubbles in the carboy when I racked the wine into it. Wondering if that adds some protection from oxidation?

What do you guys think? Is that too much room...top off with similar wine? Or leave it, as the instructions say.

BTW, snuck about 5oz out and this is so good I could drink it now. Dry, with the amount of fruit we love in a wine, not tannic or bitter at all. This is going to be great a few months out.

Appreciate any feedback,

 

[joeswine]

head space??????????

I believe in racking down and eliminating as much head space as possible, that's just me.

 

[Gwand]

Put this comment on another thread about topping but wanted to place it here also. I'm unsure if the amount of space in my carboy is excessive or normal...and wondering if I'm ok to follow instructions and not top up with wine. I wouldn't use water.

Step four today with my Eclipse Stags Leap Merlot...racking and clarifying. I only have one carboy, so I racked into the primary bucket, stirred for about 5 minutes, no bubbles whatsoever, and then racked back into the carboy. Instructions say "do not top with water, as it will change the character of your wine...your wine will not oxidize or spoil during the time remaining to bottling...Leave wine 28 days to finish clarifying."

I attached a photo to show how much space is at the top of the carboy. I transferred, at each step, as much wine as possible...sometimes allowing a little bit of sediment to come through the hose. I'm thinking I'm should just follow instructions and leave it as is. There were Star San bubbles in the carboy when I racked the wine into it. Wondering if that adds some protection from oxidation?

What do you guys think? Is that too much room...top off with similar wine? Or leave it, as the instructions say.

BTW, snuck about 5oz out and this is so good I could drink it now. Dry, with the amount of fruit we love in a wine, not tannic or bitter at all. This is going to be great a few months out.

Appreciate any feedback,
View attachment 13341

With my WE kits After primary I have given up racking into a 6 gallon carboy. I rack into a 5 gallon carboy and save the extra for topping off later.

 

[tonyportale]

Put this comment on another thread about topping but wanted to place it here also. I'm unsure if the amount of space in my carboy is excessive or normal...and wondering if I'm ok to follow instructions and not top up with wine. I wouldn't use water.



With my WE kits After primary I have given up racking into a 6 gallon carboy. I rack into a 5 gallon carboy and save the extra for topping off later.

Hello,
Over the years, that is what I have done. I rack down to a 5 gal. and 1/2 gal. I just ordered a 'true' 6 gal. carboy from Winemakers Depot because of this new philosophy from WE.

 

[bstnh1]

Seems a bit excessive to me, based on my experience. When going from primary to secondary I take as much liquid as possible without sucking up the real heavy stuff and don't top up. After that, I top up any rackings with a similar wine. For bulk aging you'll have to top up anyway or rack into a smaller carboy. I ony have 6 gal. carboys, so I top up for everything after secondary.

 

[bstnh1]

Hello,
Over the years, that is what I have done. I rack down to a 5 gal. and 1/2 gal. I just ordered a 'true' 6 gal. carboy from Winemakers Depot because of this new philosophy from WE.

Just out of curiosity, what is a "true" 6 gal. carboy? I didn't see anything at Winemakers Depot that uses that term to describe any carboy they carry.

 

[tonyportale]

Just out of curiosity, what is a "true" 6 gal. carboy? I didn't see anything at Winemakers Depot that uses that term to describe any carboy they carry.

I called them and spoke with them and asked them if they carry 'true' 6 gal caroboys vs the Italian made 6 gal oversize version. They carry a 6 gal. carboy that is not 'oversize'. The old style (smooth glass) Mexican carboys were that size.

 

[Bob007]

Topped up with 2 1/4 bottles of Napa Valley wine.

 

[tonyportale]

Topped up with 2 1/4 bottles of Napa Valley wine.View attachment 13392

Is this picture showing the stage in your process where the wine is now sitting for the recommended 28 - 35 days....final racking before bottling?

 

[Bob007]

Yes, 28 days and then bottle....



Sent from my iPad using Wine Making

 

[Putterrr]

Beaware that if you bottle these big kits as per instructions you may end up with sediment in the bottles since they drop allot of stuff for quite awhile.

Perhaps someone can comment on if filtering using the WE timeline eliminates sediment of not.

cheers

 

[turkeylipz]

Topped up with 2 1/4 bottles of Napa Valley

The price of a 5 gallon Carboy. Get one for the future and rack down in volume as others suggested.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

 

[Elmer]

The price of a 5 gallon Carboy. Get one for the future and rack down in volume as others suggested.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

The problem is, if you already have 6/6.5 carboys you have to work with what you have,
I have 3 6.5s and finally got a few 5s.
but you still end up having to use 6.5's and topping up

It would be nice if LHBS would allow you to trade some 6.5's toward the cost of a 5.

 

[wineh]

The problem is, if you already have 6/6.5 carboys you have to work with what you have,
I have 3 6.5s and finally got a few 5s.
but you still end up having to use 6.5's and topping up

My glass carboys come from Mexico and Italy. all say 23 liters, which is the volume the kit is supposed to be. 6US gallons is 22.68l, while 6.5 US gallons is 24.57l. 6.5 gallon carboys would explain all your problems, but I didn't know there was such a thing. Huh.

 

[bstnh1]

Beaware that if you bottle these big kits as per instructions you may end up with sediment in the bottles since they drop allot of stuff for quite awhile.

Perhaps someone can comment on if filtering using the WE timeline eliminates sediment of not.

cheers

I don't filter. But when the instructions say it's time to bottle, I rack into a carboy, top up with a similar wine and bulk age for a couple of months, racking a couple of times during that 2 month period. I have had no problem with sediment in either reds or whites. I agree with you that bottling when WE says to will leave you with sediment in the bottle. During 2 months of bulk aging enough fine sediment drops out that it would certainly be noticeable in the bottle.