WineXpert WE says "Don't top up"

[Brew and Wine Supply]

Just got this from my supplier of Wine Expert kits:

Key Talking Points


Winexpert has provided us with answers to some questions your customers may have regarding the new kit instructions. Keep in mind the new instructions will be in kits coming from Winexpert starting April 1, so there will be some time until they actually reach your customers. We just wanted you to have the answers in case any questions arise.

Change: Not Topping Up
Key Points:
This change addresses a quality
issue. WX found in analysis samples that were being sent to the WX lab that alcohol levels were varying greatly; WX attributed the varying levels to inconsistent and poor racking which led to inconsistent "topping up." Wines with greater headspace were being topped up with excess water (or wine) creating alcohol levels that were lower or higher than the appropriate range.
By removing the "topping up" it

forces the consumer to be more conscientious about their racking - rack all of the liquid while leaving the sediment behind. In summary, the option for the consumer to top up with either water or wines created too many inconsistent finished wines. In the long term this change in instructions will minimize consumer complaints.

Change: Not Over-concentrated
Key Points:
Winexpert kits are not "over-
concentrated" to compensate for topping. While this was previously thought to be the case, Winexpert kits have never been over-
concentrated. Over concentrating them would re-introduce the "kit taste" that some consumers report. This issue should only be addressed if "over-concentrating" is specifically brought up.


Hey, don't kill me, I'm only the messinger

 

[joshs]

I don't understand what they mean by the higher alcohol levels when adding wine. You know in general what your final abv is going to be so you can use a similar wine when you top up. That shouldn't in theory move the abv up.

I understand the water statement better as that seems obvious.

-Josh

 

[Boatboy24]

My Vineco LR kit also instructs not to top up. I think I'll choose not to follow that one. I'll call it a "tweak".

 

[ibglowin]

Bwahahahahahahaha. LMFAO.

Tim V on another forum has said all along that WE makes their kits concentrated enough so that when you top up with water you are not watering it down, your actually bringing the ABV right in line with the design of the kit..... Sounds like the definition of over-conentrated to me.

Seems to me someone has been lying or doesn't know what the heck they are talking about.

Change: Not Over-concentrated
Key Points:
Winexpert kits are not "over-
concentrated" to compensate for topping. While this was previously thought to be the case, Winexpert kits have never been over-
concentrated. Over concentrating them would re-introduce the "kit taste" that some consumers report. This issue should only be addressed if "over-concentrating" is specifically brought up.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Bwahahahahahahaha. LMFAO.

Tim V on another forum has said all along that WE makes their kits concentrated enough so that when you top up with water you are not watering it down, your actually bringing the ABV right in line with the design of the kit..... Sounds like the definition of over-conentrated to me.

Seems to me someone has been lying or doesn't know what the heck they are talking about.

Yes, but he has been talking about 1 liter of water as a top-up. That is not over-concentrating. Thats only 4% volume.

Now, those who insist on 5 gallons instead of 6 are over-concentrating and they think they are doing something to mske their kits better. Just concentrating kit-taste...

 

[diggerdan17]

Bwahahahahahahaha. LMFAO.

Tim V on another forum has said all along that WE makes their kits concentrated enough so that when you top up with water you are not watering it down, your actually bringing the ABV right in line with the design of the kit..... Sounds like the definition of over-conentrated to me.

Seems to me someone has been lying or doesn't know what the heck they are talking about.

I take it your not a big fan of Tim V?

 

[phat]

. Keep in mind the new instructions will be in kits coming from Winexpert starting April 1, so there will be some time until they actually reach your customers. We just wanted you to have the answers in case any questions arise.

Change: Not Topping Up

April Fool?

 

[Putterrr]

I saw this posted at my LHBS last month and the lady there did not agree with not topping up either but it is what it is. make it by the instructions or void the warranty if something goes wrong.

just an easier way for the brew on site guys to turn out a consistent product with less steps.

cheers

 

[phat]

Of course, if you think about it - this is probably for a kit that they are saying to go from box to bottle in 4-8 weeks. it's not like it's aging for a super long amount of time in the carboy - so thinking about their "lessening customer complaints" - it's assuming you are following the kit directions, not doing crazy things like letting the wine bulk age for a year in the carboy before bottling it.. There's not *that* much time for oxidization in a 6 week kit.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I don't understand how alcohol levels can "vary greatly" if you're topping up with a wine unless you end up needing several bottles. It's pretty unlikely you'd be using a wine that has significantly less alcohol than the kit was intended to have given the favored style of wines these days...if anything it might be more. I can see how topping up with straight water would affect the alcohol level more.

Course, I think it can be easy to forget that a lot of the consumer base for these products really do want their wine bottled as soon as possible and probably consume that wine within a matter of months. After all...the boxes say that wine is ready in 6-8 weeks or less!

 

[BobF]

If you top up a mist kit (6%) with 8 bottles of Amerone, the alcohol will be higher than intended

 

[BobF]

Yes, Tim V has made a glaringly obvious change here.

 

[joeswine]

Topping off




I have always been a proponent of racking down, right or wrong it allows me to have 100% a what the manufacturer was giving me, in some cases I use a 6 1/2 carboy by mistake and of course had to rack down. The racking down is the topping off-it has always been my way, that allows me Once again to know I have 100% of the manufacturer product, that is why I have a variety of bottles to work with and it is not, that hard to add a half a gallon to a carboy in open bucket. If you are mixing and F pack or doing some of the kind of work with and then re-splitting it up so that the same balance is in both vessels, I know this seems like it takes more work and it does but that is wine making. So about patients .N

 

[wineh]

I'm not so sure

If you go to the WE site and download kit instructions, all have a top up instruction in stage three, except the limited edition Nebbiolo with grapeskins, which specifically states don't top up in stage three.
http://www.winexpert.com/pdfs/Limited Edition Instructions 11x17 Nebbiolo Grapeskins_ENG.pdf
I think it may be only that kit.

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

Wineh, i believe these instructions will be coming out for all kits.

 

[tonyt]

I emailed Tim V. on this subject a couple hours ago and he has already responded, I must say that Tim has always responded to my emails or PMs quickly and honestly. Concerning the topping up he said that he was not given the correct information until 2012 and realizes he will be spending lots of time correcting his past misstatements. That's not an exact quote but a paraphrase from a longer email. So not that I will, but the lesson might be to follow the instructions![FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[wineh]

Vineco too

I've been poking around on Vineco's site and noticed some changes. While the CC kit instructions say to top up, the Kenridge doesn't and a set of "new" instructions for all of their 4 week kits specifically state "don't top up".
If this is going to be the new instruction set for all of our brands, what does this mean for those of us who "bulk age" for one to six months (or even longer)? In addition, if we start at 23 litres, then rack a few times without topping up, how many bottles will we get then?
It takes 22.5 litres to get 30 bottles, and I am sure I have added up to 1.5 litres of top up in either water or wine.

 

[tonyt]

My instructions say that if you are not going to bottle right away to install a solid rubber or silicone stopper. I am sure that I will top up anyway.

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

A little trick I use it to pour the leas into another bottle with an airlock for a few days to settle and pour the clear back into the carboy. Very little wasted.

 

[GaDawg]

http://www.homebrewinparadise.com/News/winexpert.pdf