Waterproofing basement wineroom

Discussion in 'Wine Cellar & Storage Forum' started by Ajmassa5983, Mar 10, 2018.

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  1. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    “To strip or not to strip?”. Hopefully the ONLY time this question is asked in my home!
    Concrete slab floor and cinder walls (2 of 4 are exterior - existing paint is chipping on both.
    The floor Im thinking Behr or Rustoleum 1-part epoxy garage floor paint since it will second as the finished floor too. But Open to suggestions.
    Walls- no clue. So many options out there- Kilz, DryLok etc... And each product calls for different prep work. Curious what others have done.
    I already have 5gal of a clear waterbased concrete sealer- but in my experiences anything waterbased is shite and needs 1,000 coats. The walls will eventually be furred/insulated and rocked- so sealing the cinder will be function over fashion.
    Here’s a sample pic of the surfaces I’m working with. IMG_0719.jpg
     
  2. ceeaton

    ceeaton Three is the charm, right?

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    I notice in the image of the bare areas that you have efflourescence showing through, so you need to remove that with either a light pressure washing or an acid of some type. If you drylock or use some other paint, it will chip off within a few years if you don't remove the salts. We used muriatic acid on my parents basement, worked great but you have to work with it carefully (lot's of ventilation, we took beer breaks often to break up our exposure time, placed fans all around, and opened what windows we could). I know there are a few contractors here, they probably have an idea of the best way to do it.

    Here's the first quicky "primer" that showed up in a search: http://www.concreteconstruction.net...uses-efflorescence-and-how-do-you-remove-it_o
     
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  3. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    That’s what the mason and painter both said to me as well.
    I was trying to maybe avoid using that acid gel and turning this into even more a project.
    Maybe I can pay some kids in the neighborhood a few bucks to do the muriatic acid for me- and just tell the parents I’ll have em raking leaves.
     
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  4. mainshipfred

    mainshipfred Junior Member Supporting Member

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    As far as the walls go I think pressure washing would be the simplest cleanest way to go. I can't comment on a product to apply. My only experience with floors is automotive service centers and commercial kitchens which have far more abuse then you will have. Once you get the bulk of the loose paint off the floor you can rent a disc for a floor polishing machine that has carbide teeth. It will remove any other loose paint and give you a rough enough surface for the new paint too adhere. They also have sanding pads or you could use a black stripping pad and some type of thinner. No matter what we use it always involves a buffing machine.
     
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  5. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    This is the exact type of job I’d be perfectly fine with paying someone else to do.
    I used this as an excuse to buy a pressure washer. Unfortunately I didn’t have to time to research different models/brands and picked one up this morning while getting material. Going against all my core values and everything I know to be true—-i bought a....[cough] ....Ryobi. —-still mad at myself. It pains me to see a tool with that lime green. Electric - 2000psi $200. Jury’s still out- but so far so good. Had to install a temporary hose bib before I could even do anything. (*God bless shark bite couplings!)
    Here’s the best part—-she’s happy and thinks I’m just jumping on the next priority item on our ‘to-do’ list. She doesn’t realize that just started my wine room!
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  6. mainshipfred

    mainshipfred Junior Member Supporting Member

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    I hate paying for SharkBites but they sure make things simple. Especially if you can't stop the water completely.
     
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  7. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    I needed a couple a few weeks ago so I bit the bullet and bought a pack of couplings and 90°s. The sharkbite allowed me to solder in the shop on the vice beforehand ‘working like a gentlemen’. As opposed to ‘working like an a**hole’.
    Pressure washer worked very well- happy with my purchase. My buddy came by to lend a hand and was a huge help. Tonight is acid night and patchwork and sealing tomorrow night. So annoyed it’s Monday. All I wanna do is get back home and jump back on the walls. IMG_0736.jpg IMG_0735.jpg
     
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  8. stickman

    stickman Veteran Winemaker

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    If you're using acid, be careful around the pipes and electrical equipment, galvanized will be consumed for breakfast, and when done, neutralize everything, especially at the wall penetration where the acid residue can hide and remain active.
     
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  9. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the tip. Didn’t realize rinsing after was that crucial. And I knew it has negative effects with metal and cannot use my SS pump sprayer. - just didn’t know to that extent.
    Decided on DryLok simply because Depot sells it. Not the most interesting aspect of the job- but part of the job nonetheless. IMG_0737.jpg
     
  10. stickman

    stickman Veteran Winemaker

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    Yea, if you haven't worked with muriatic acid you're in for a "pleasant" experience. Outdoors no problem, indoors a bit more of a problem. The vapors and mist being released are obviously corrosive, zinc can be stripped from the pipe in a matter of seconds, any surface in the area that is damp or wet will become acidic if exposed to the vapors. I'm not trying to make this into something more than it is, but just try to keep the acid where it belongs and everything else as dry as possible. @ceeaton comments about needing good ventilation is valid.
     
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  11. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks again. Extremely useful info. The few sites I read did not mention about just the vapors turning a damp section acidic.
    I’m not getting crazy with it I suppose. Maybe overvill- maybe not. The efforflescence areas are not terrible. And the cinder will be covered in the finish. I just want seal it and prevent any salt deposits in the future since I won’t be able to see it. I did read that if not all is removed it will return.
    The thought is to do it right the first time so there never is a 2nd time.
     
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  12. balatonwine

    balatonwine The Verecund Vigneron

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    I love such colors. Especially for hand tools (anything in your hand, that may not fit on a utility belt including drills, angle grinders, saws, etc). Helps me find them when I put them down. Too many tools seems to just "vanish" in construction material otherwise. So tired of the all too common experience: "Now, I just put that tool down 30 seconds ago.... where heck did it go?!?!?!"
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  13. balatonwine

    balatonwine The Verecund Vigneron

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    If anyone is interested in seeing some reviews, before purchase, there is this site, as one example:

    http://www.concretesealerreviews.com

    (side note: that site is not too fond of DryLok :( )
     
  14. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    That much was already assumed. There’s always a better product or tool or method. But decisions need to get made to keep moving forward while knowing how to prioritize my time in relation to level of concern.
    DryLok isn’t the top product. But it will do the job and did not require any extra legwork to obtain it. Existing walls were not taking water. This is preventative maintenance.
    You know a true Old world mason wouldn’t read reviews online. They would use mud, clay and hay to parge the walls Adobe style! IMG_0761.jpg
    ** and the dislike for the lime green is not because of the color but because of previous bad experiences with the brand. Namely the ryobi battery operated tools. The pressure washer was a quick buy, and most psi in electric available. Gets an A+’so far
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  15. btchild

    btchild btchild

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  16. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Wow. Re-sealing the Panama Canal. That’s one helluva selling point.
    I’ve already finished with the waterproofing with DryLok actually. Went 2 heavy coats and select areas got 3.
    I’m far enough along to use the room while chipping away at each phase now. Got about 80% of the gear down there. I was extremely particular about my sink area, and even though still bare bones I could not be any happier with it. Also installed a hose bib up there to run a hose over to the sump pump area for cleaning after crush and press- allowing 100% of all wine work to be done down there.
    IMG_1206.jpg IMG_1218.jpg
     
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  17. sour_grapes

    sour_grapes Victim of the Invasion of the Avatar Snatchers

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    Lookin' fine!
     
  18. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    -Next will be ceiling. Switching out the lighting w/ hi-hats everywhere- some sort of sound insulation board up there, then spraying exposed ceiling flat black.
    -Then perimeter walls using 2x4 studs flat against cinder- giving solid nailing for finish work and anything really. Insulating exterior walls. (I’ll do studs in 2 pieces to leave a channel to run mechanicals).
    -lastly interior partitions. (Hiding heater/water heater and a section for storage- leaving access to sump pump located caddy corner from sink)
    Only after all this is finished will I have a blank canvas to actually start configuring the room. That’s when it really gets fun.
     
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  19. meadmaker1

    meadmaker1 Member

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    As your freindly service technician. Leave room to service and remove the heater and pump.
    Mechanical room should not include any stored items
     
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  20. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    That just made me laugh. I can imagine all the finished basements where walls were built ass tight for maximum space. But lest we forget the poor service tech!
    Point noted. Storage area will be a different section anyway. But I always try to account for as much as I can think of. As a carpenter it’s just instinct when laying out.
     

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