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Chinook

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First , tannins in the primary at there to start to build structure, in the secondary they add to the structure and flavornoids,( taste profile).
Fruit in the primary or secondary creates enhancements to the overall structure.
Ok I think I'll get some Blackberry or cherry depending on what Walmart has - usually they sell those packs of 600 gm frozen. Not sure how much to add.
It will change the SG by an unknown amount, because the sugar in the fruit will not be in the must yet, but I'll get the final actual SG when it is in the carboy just before stabilizing.

I've done Dragon Blood by simply adding the fruit in a mesh bag , using squeeze method and then eventually just dumping it all out of the mesh bag into the carboy I just like to maximize the fruit usage. I've found it no problem filtering out the large fruit must as it is going into the carboy.
I didn't think of sauteing it, I guess simmering it a bit will help - good tip.

Fruit in the secondary might be a problem for me. I could only rack it again prior to filtering and bottling because of ullage - ie if I rack it at half time the carboy won't be full..unless I use my overflow reserve method - ie usually ensuring the primary will fill a 6 gallon carboy plus a 750 or 500 ml pop bottle.

Yeah fruit addition should improve the kit. Sounds good. And then maybe some Tannin after stabilization of after filtering.
Thanks for the tips.
 

joeswine

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To a 5 or 6 gallon batch 16 Oz's. or so is enough.
Here's what happens if you add enhancements (fruit etc.) in the primary they then become a partnership with the base ( better balance )
If you add the same (fruit ETC.) to the secondary it then becomes part of the background ( tasting notes) understand
 

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The use of simple syrup To make Simple Syrup
We use Pure Can Sugar Only.

Simple syrup is a 2 to 1 blend (2 parts sugar, 1 part water)
We use ball jars as a measuring device because that is what I store it in.

So, this batch was 4-to-2 blend. (4 ball jars sugar, 2 ball jars water)
which equates to 4 full ball jars of simple syrup ready to use anytime.

First:
Measure out sugar to water ratio.
Next, add sugar to a large metal pot.
Now is a good time to take the ball jars and place them in the sink in a tray and have your lids ready and your hot mittens (cooking gloves, whatever you call them!)
Make a well in the center, then dump the water into the well and stir until blended (not disolved yet.)
Next, turn the heat up to high. Stirring frequently until you see it start to clear a little with a light foam on top. Once you see this, you want to stir it constantly. It will go from simmer to rapid boil almost instantly when it's ready to go. Continue to stir, being careful to NOT GET ANY ON YOU! It will take your skin off, it's very HOT!
With a metal spoon you should see through the simple syrup just like water, it will be clear. You will know you are done when this happens. (It will be at a hard boil when this happens.)
You should already have your ball jars clean and ready to go. I place mine in a tin tray in the sink and fill the tray half way up w/ water. I place a wide mouth funnel inside the jars and take the boiling hot simple syrup and CAREFULLY fill the ball jars. Use your mitten and put the lids and rings on the jars and tighten them up. Turn the cold water on them and allow it to run in the tray. The process of the water cooling down the simple syrup will cause a vacuum in the jars and you will hear a "POP!". This will seal your ball jars and by the morning they will be cool and ready for you to handle. This simple syrup will stay good indefinetily.
This is how I make simple syrup. Another tool in the toolbox.
 

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my wine

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I’m not Joe, but boiling takes O2 out of water and yeasties need O2 during fermentation.
That is true; it does remove some of the O2. But we're talking about 8 ounces of liquid simmering with the fruit. Then adding to that 5 1/2 to 6 gallons of must. So it can't be much of an impact there.

I'm not suggesting boiling is a good idea. I'm just curious why it is bad.
 

joeswine

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Because there's no need. You'll boil the flavor components out of the fruit, just like boiling a potato.
When you blend the base wine with the fruit your on the way to good structure always remember less is more.
 
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Cellar Door

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I’m not Joe, but boiling takes O2 out of water and yeasties need O2 during fermentation.
Joe, I just want to thank you. I have learned so much from your posts. I very much appreciate your insights.
 

MTJoeT

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@joeswine and anyone else: looking to impart some “terroir” into some of my wines to give them the old world style flavors. looking for the musty, mineral driven wines, especially Italian leathery, earthy wines. How can I go about this? Thanks in advance
 

joeswine

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just started 2, Winexpert kits for Carol ,A Merlot and a Sanginovese, you know the drill, merlot with blackberries and the sanginovese straight up both with tannins in the primary and oak for the MERLOT,THAT SHOULD DO IT. AVERAGEING 12% abv.
THESE KITS ARE SIMPLE AND FUN TO MAKE AND OR TWEAK ,TO LEARN FROM AND ADAPT YOUR SKILLS TO.
 

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Rocky

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@joeswine and anyone else: looking to impart some “terroir” into some of my wines to give them the old world style flavors. looking for the musty, mineral driven wines, especially Italian leathery, earthy wines. How can I go about this? Thanks in advance
I would think that any characteristics of the "terroir" are already in the grapes, juice or kits that one purchases in order to make wine. I don't think it is something that one can "add" later because it includes things like minerals in the earth where the grapes are grown, climate, farming methods, etc. that are unique to a particular variety from a specific region.
 

GaDawg

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I would think that any characteristics of the "terroir" are already in the grapes, juice or kits that one purchases in order to make wine. I don't think it is something that one can "add" later because it includes things like minerals in the earth where the grapes are grown, climate, farming methods, etc. that are unique to a particular variety from a specific region.
I’m tempted to say “just throw a handful of dirt in it” but I‘m trying not to.
 

my wine

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looking to impart some “terroir” into some of my wines to give them the old world style flavors. looking for the musty, mineral driven wines, especially Italian leathery, earthy wines. How can I go about this? Thanks in advance
I was thinking about this question. I don't have a solution for you but you might approach it this way. You can have a sample of your wine tested for mineral content. Then find a wine that has the "terroir" you are seeking and have a sample tested (before drinking it all). Then you will have some measurable information to work with. This may cost you some bucks and may not get you anything usable but if you really want that old wine cellar taste you will have to chase it.

Quick story here ... I was a 15 year old and didn't like wine when I visited my grandfather in Italy. We went to his cellar to fetch a pitcher of wine where he had 2 oak barrels each about 5 feet in diameter with wine, one to age and one to drink. His cellar was 10 or 12 feet high with 2 foot rock walls in his 400 or 500 year old house. I remember the good smell of that cellar and I very much liked his wine. I don't know where you live but I don't think you will find one of those basements in your neighborhood.

You can buy rocks in liquid form as I'm holding a bottle of Hi Trace low sodium trace minerals that my wife used to add to our softened tap water. Many companies, to include beer producers, condition their water by adding or removing minerals. I'm sure you can find what you need if your solution lies with adjusting the mineral content.
 

sour_grapes

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I was thinking about this question. I don't have a solution for you but you might approach it this way. You can have a sample of your wine tested for mineral content. Then find a wine that has the "terroir" you are seeking and have a sample tested (before drinking it all). Then you will have some measurable information to work with. This may cost you some bucks and may not get you anything usable but if you really want that old wine cellar taste you will have to chase it.

Quick story here ... I was a 15 year old and didn't like wine when I visited my grandfather in Italy. We went to his cellar to fetch a pitcher of wine where he had 2 oak barrels each about 5 feet in diameter with wine, one to age and one to drink. His cellar was 10 or 12 feet high with 2 foot rock walls in his 400 or 500 year old house. I remember the good smell of that cellar and I very much liked his wine. I don't know where you live but I don't think you will find one of those basements in your neighborhood.

You can buy rocks in liquid form as I'm holding a bottle of Hi Trace low sodium trace minerals that my wife used to add to our softened tap water. Many companies, to include beer producers, condition their water by adding or removing minerals. I'm sure you can find what you need if your solution lies with adjusting the mineral content.
But the "mineral taste" in wines is not from actual minerals in the wine. See, e.g., Nailing the Myth of Minerality | Wine-Searcher News & Features
 

Chinook

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just started 2, Winexpert kits for Carol ,A Merlot and a Sanginovese, you know the drill, merlot with blackberries and the sanginovese straight up both with tannins in the primary and oak for the MERLOT,THAT SHOULD DO IT. AVERAGEING 12% abv.
THESE KITS ARE SIMPLE AND FUN TO MAKE AND OR TWEAK ,TO LEARN FROM AND ADAPT YOUR SKILLS TO.
I have just bought a cheap kit - Vineco Merlot from Chile, so I think I will follow you along here. Will start it next month.
 
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Spiros

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Picked up a double kit of cellar masters cab sauv from Costco $80cdn delivered. These are 5.5L kits so was thinking of these tweaks for the first one.
-make it to around 5gal or when I like the gravity reading
-1 tbsp wine tannin in primary
-switch to rc212 yeast
-add 1 cup Zante currents to primary
-use oak powder that comes with kit in primary
-finish aging in carboy with some American oak staves that I roasted.

I’d also like to hear some opinions on what tweeks I should do on the second kit
 

MTJoeT

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I would think that any characteristics of the "terroir" are already in the grapes, juice or kits that one purchases in order to make wine. I don't think it is something that one can "add" later because it includes things like minerals in the earth where the grapes are grown, climate, farming methods, etc. that are unique to a particular variety from a specific region.
Thanks for the reply, yes I agree although we do artificially layer our wines with Chestnut tannins and other ingredients like F-packs to add depth and character to our wines so trying to figure out all possibilities and see if anyone has any tips before I go screw up some batches of wine, LOL.
 
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