The degassing blues

[Trubador]

Frustrated over here

I bulk aged my WE French Merlot since October 2007. I degassed with the drill mounted stirrer back in October and for the first time tried the brake bleeder a few weeks ago knowing that i would be bottling soon.


I pumped up the bleeder several times to almost 25-inches over a two day period. Bubbles were constantly coming up (big and small).


Eventually, I could hold 15-inches overnight. However, even at this point, if I pumped up the vacuum, I would still get quite a lot of bubbles.


I saw reference that if 15 inches could be held for an hour, that I was degassed.


Last night, I added k-meta, transferred to my bottling bucket and bottled.


As is my custom, I drink one of the bottles at this time. Bubbles, bubbles bubbles. arghhhh


I am not giving up!!!!! I will eventually have gas free wine, but I am not there yet and I have a batch in the carboy now that will be getting its first degassing. A Mosti all juice merlot.


Please give me advice on how to degass this wine so I won't have to decant for an hour before drinking.

 

[Wade E]

Adding k-meta makes it gassy all over again, why, Im not quite sure. Ive noticed this a few times when I added S02 and received the volcano due to that addition. I have been degassing after adding k-meta for some time because of that

 

[Trubador]

Adding k-meta makes it gassy all over again, why, Im not quite sure. Ive noticed this a few times when I added S02 and received the volcano due to that addition. I have been degassing after adding k-meta for some time because of that

I didn't think of that, but could be.


Do you think that degassing after adding the k-meta would drive off the beneficial sulfate gas in the wine?

 

[Wade E]

The main benefit to adding the extra K-Meta is getting the extra S02 that binds and that is somewhere around 50% from what Ive been told and when more and more is added less of it binds each time. I dont think that degassing with the brake bleeder results in much loss of S02 though. I would actually think that the Mix-Stir would actually be more of a S02 loss.
Edited by: wade

 

[Trubador]

I have completed the mix stir end of the degassing. I brought up more gas then I ever have before, mainly b/c I was not afraid this time to create a vortex. I took it slow and created a foam head many times over a 2 hour period. Each time, I waited until most of the foam subsided and then stirred again.


Eventually it was bed time and even though i still have foam, I had to give up for the night. So at that time, I added the k-meta and stirred it in.


I did not top up yet. I attached the brake bleeder overnight mainly to keep oxygen out of the wine, but I pumped it up to almost 20 inches (i didn't want to go further b/c it was not topped up) and left it overnight.


This morning, the guage read around 7 inches, so I pumped it up to 20 and went to work where I'm typing now.


So, tonight, what should be my plan? Top up and put the brake bleeder to work? Or should I use the mix stir some more?


If using the brake bleeder after topping up, should I pump up to 25 and then go have a glass of wine and wait for it to get back down to 15 before pumping again? Or do I continually keep it at 25 for 15 minutes, 30 minutes??

 

[Wade E]

Surely top it up as that makes it easier to vacuum degas. I would then pump it to 25 and give it some time. remember that there will always be bubbles, just watch the size of them as bigger bubbles are not gas but vacuum being drawn through your wine. The smaller bubbles are the 1's to get rid of.

 

[TankCa]

This is the first I've heard that adding Kmeta causes more gas but might explain what happened to me last weekend.


I bottled my MM Meglioli Rojo Grande and Rojo Intenso last weekend and added Kmeta just before bottling. I thought it was fully degassed but using my Enolmatic bottler for the first time, every bottle had foam.


I didn't quite know what to do but finished bottling anyway. Afterward, I took a 3/4 full bottle and put a vacuvin on it and it held the vacuum so I was really confused. What was going on?


Do you think the foaming was due to the addition of Kmeta just before bottling? Was it S02 or more CO2 causing the foam?


Thanks,
Steve

 

[Wade E]

TankCa, Ive heard a few people have issues with foaming from the Enolmatic. I believe that people had to turn the valve down. Im not sure it causes more C02 but have noticed a reaction a few times by racking a wine that may have not been thoroughly degassed and had quite the reaction by racking onto k-meta but never had this reaction to racking just to glass so there must be something about the K-meta that causes it to really foam up.

 

[Dean]

I think you need to get some wine outta that carboy. Top it up after you degass. You need a larger surface area for the gas to come out. I always siphon wine out of the carboy until it is down to the first shoulder. Trying to vac degass when the wine is up in the neck doesn't do that much. Try it again with a large surface area, and make sure the temperature of the liquid is 74F or higher. Ambient temp means nothing, and liquid temp is everything.

 

[Trubador]

I think you need to get some wine outta that carboy. Top it
up after you degass. You need a larger surface area for the gas to come
out. I always siphon wine out of the carboy until it is down to the
first shoulder. Trying to vac degass when the wine is up in the neck
doesn't do that much. Try it again with a large surface area, and make
sure the temperature of the liquid is 74F or higher. Ambient temp means
nothing, and liquid temp is everything.

interesting. Well, I have held 15 inches for about a day now, but
the carboy is topped up. Most of what I have read on this forum
indicates that the topping up is necessary b/c of the danger of carboy
implosion.



Since I can hold 15 inches, am I degassed now?

 

[Joanie]

If it makes you feel any better Trubador, I thought I knew what I was doing but now I'm more confused than ever!

 

[Wade E]

It is easier to degas your wine if you have just a little room like
Dean says. You shouldnt have the carboy filled up to the bung but you
should not be below the shoulder as thats where carboys and just about any bottle is at its weakest.

 

[Trubador]

OK, so what do I do now, b/c I degassed with the mix stir already
and was removing a lot of those tiny bubbles you spoke of. Then I
degassed at the bulk age spot. I can hold 15-inches seemingly
indefinitely at this point; however, like was said, there is not much
surface area.



Should I remove a wine bottles worth and then degass again?

 

[Wade E]

Try a sample! It should be good at this point, its just easier to get to that point when you have a little room in there so as that when you pump it you dont get bubbles in you vacuum or have to back off and you will get to that point a little faster as there is more surface area for the vacuum to be open to.

 

[Trubador]

well, I pulled out a little over half a bottle of wine. Forgot to try it though.



I put a 25-inch vacuum on and I don't have any of the tiny bubbles,
just the bigger ones (although, even the bigger ones I would call
small).



I'll see, if this holds 15-inches for an hour or two, I am not sure what else I can do.



I just really don't want gas in this wine



I'll let you know. thanks for the help so far, I'll keep you posted.



Wade, if you ever need any help with beer, I have brewed a long while
now and may be able to help a bit or at least put you in the right
direction.

 

[Trubador]

just checked a sample from the wine bottle, it still had some
bubbles. The same size as what i see continually coming up from
the carboy. When I swirl the wine in the glass, I can see
the bubbles on the side of the glass.



guess it is not done. Maybe I need to be able to hold 20 inches?

 

[Trubador]

or maybe the bubbles were from the sulfite solution i put in the wine
bottle to sanitize it? The wine smelled of sulfite from the
solution

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

Trub, if you have the time, I highly recommend you watch the videos George has made. There is a link to them on his home page. Addresses this subject very well. See the degassing video, and the bottling/corking one. May help you out a bit.

 

[Wade E]

I dont think thats the case if you let them drip dry and I dont believe that a solution of k-meta has the same effect as just racking onto the powder does.

 

[Trubador]

Trub, if you have the time, I highly recommend you
watch the videos George has made. There is a link to them on his home
page. Addresses this subject very well. See the degassing video, and
the bottling/corking one. May help you out a bit.

I did watch them. Very big help. I have also done exactly
as shown except I am using a brake bleeder instead of the vacu-vin.