RJ Spagnols Suggestions for my Valpolicella Ripassa

[tonyt]

I just received a Cru Select Valpolicella Ripassa and want y"alls suggestions on how to tweek it. I usually use Tim V's 5-20-40-90 schedule of 5 days of primary, finish fermenting in carboy till day 20, fining and clearing till day 40 and age till day 90. This kit however, skips fermenting in carboy by fermenting to dry in primary then goes directly to degassing and clearing in carboy.

The kit has two oak "tea bags" I have never used these before, seems to be toasted chips, don't know why the tea bag and not just dump in. Use tea bags? Open tea bags and dump in? Lose tea bag oak in lieu of below?

We like the Oak Monster so I may add American or french spirals or Hungarian cubes. Yea / Nea? Country of origin?

Also has a large plastic bag of oak shavings and dust, does not seem to be toasted at all. I think I swept better than this up off the floor of my grandpa's woodworking shop years ago. Anyone like this stuff?

It also has a sock to put the GenuWine skins in. I have never had a sock to use for skins. The EP kit just dumped the skins in primary, don't mind the mess that much. Use the sock or lose it?

Extra 3 or 6 months in carboy prior to bottling?

George says to make it exactly like the instructions with provided ingredients maybe add glycerin at the end and it will be delicious. But then can I really call it mine? Plus what would we all sit up late at night and talk about?

 

[ibglowin]

I kind of like the idea of making it pretty much as directed the first time around. The next time you can tweak it. That way you know how the manufacturer thought it should taste. They usually know their product pretty well somehow.

Beware the oak monster as he seems to grows larger as he grows older and ages.

I like the use of bags to hold skins or grapes. Easy to clean up and all in one place and I can use my punch down tool to smash the bag several times a day. If they were floating free it would be a pain to try and corner them if they were free floating.

I do a 7-8 day ferment in Primary snapping the lid when it slows down. I transfer when the SG is 1.000 or less. Then 12 days in Secondary with gross lees. Then degas, stabilize, and fine. I always bulk age reds for at least 6 mo and now leaning more towards 9 mo with a few carboy tastings along the way. If it really seems like it needs something like a touch of oak you can for sure tell it by 6 mos.

 

[Dean]

I've made this kit and it's fantastic! This was the first kit that RJS released that uses the GenuWine dried winery skins as opposed to the wet ones used in the winery series. These skins really give this wine a huge depth of complexity.

The only "tweak" I did, wasn't even a tweak at the time. RJS was still doing the 14 day primary even with skins back then.

I'd say make the kit with the contents. It doesn't need more oak. Valpolicella is not a heavily oaked wine. If you wanted a heavier oakiness, definitely go with the Brunello. Keep the oak in the tea bags. It doesn't hinder extraction whatsoever and really helps with cleanup. Oak gets extracted as the alcohol develops. Having it float loose doesn't assist with extraction. Same goes for skins. You can safely put those in a bag, and as long as it's loosely kept in the bag, you'll get the same extraction as if it was just floating in there. The only thing is that you will not be cursing the skins when you do have to rack! It's also strange that your EP kit didn't contain the sock. All the EP kits that I've seen do have the sock. Must have been a packaging error.

The non-toasted oak gives stronger oak based tannins, much like American oak gives. The greater the toast, the weaker the oak tannins and the heavier the vanillins. Use all the oak that comes with this kit.

I kept mine in the carboy for close to 16 months before I filtered and bottled.

 

[Bartman]

Make it the way you want - you spent your own money on it, right?

That said, why make it harder than it needs to be? I'm willing to trust that the manufacturer includes the "convenience" features only after checking that they don't undermine the overall product quality. So I always use the "tea bags" as they are and grape skin bags too (my "punching down" tends to burst the tea bags after a few days anyway).

Besides, if you solicited and took someone else's advice, you still couldn't call it "yours", could you?

I like to bulk age all my wines at least 120 days (generally longer for reds), but there are those that will tell you bottle aging is just as effective. The "trick" is not drinking it before "sufficient" aging, whatever you may think that is.


On an unrelated note, why do the oak "tea bags" puff up as the fermentation proceeds? Why doesn't the trapped gas (whatever it may be) escape, so the tea bag can sink rather than float at the top? Or am I the only one to experience this phenomenon?

 

[cpfan]

On an unrelated note, why do the oak "tea bags" puff up as the fermentation proceeds? Why doesn't the trapped gas (whatever it may be) escape, so the tea bag can sink rather than float at the top? Or am I the only one to experience this phenomenon?

Having made MANY MANY RJS kits with tea bags when I ran a Ferment on Premises, I can sat that they float like that unless the bag is broken. You just have to go in every day or two and flip them over a couple of times.


And yes I've wondered basically the same thing for years now.


Steve

 

[ibglowin]

If I had to make an educated guess I would say trapped CO2 molecules (stuck to either the bag or oak or both) lifts it to the surface.

Wine making would be absolutely no fun whatsoever it everything just sunk to the bottom of the Primary and stayed there like we want it to now would it!

 

[tonyt]

Do y'all pour the untoasted oak shavings and dust in the grape skin bag or lose? Anyone glove up and squeeze the grape bag daily or just punch it down?

 

[v1rotate]

I have an RQ Trio do Vinho Tinto (did I spell that right?) going right now that had the same instructions to do the 14 day ferment and then straight to fining, Tony. I called RJS customer service, can't remember why now, and they said they were recommending racking to carboy at 1.020 to avoid a vegetal smell being imparted by the floating skins bag. So I decided to blend the 2 procedures and transfer on day 10, similar to CC instructions for their Showcase skins kits. I used the included bag for the skins and pinned it to the bottom of the bucket during primary ferment and agitated the bag twice a day to stir up the yeast and facilitate flavor extraction from the skins.

You can still use Tim V's schedule with this kit. That could be considered a tweak. At day 40 have a taste and see if you like the oak level. Then you can add the cubes or spirals if you want when you rack to clarify for another tweak.

Good luck with the kit!

 

[Bacci]

I made this kit and went the full 14 days in primary. Opened my first bottle six months later and plenty of body but still had kit taste present, oak is just right. Only leaving the skins and oak in this massive kit for 5 days would be an injustice to the wine, regardless of SG.

 

[Wade E]

Tony, the wine I sent is exactly this kit with the 14 day soak for everything thats included. If you feel that it needs more oak then do while bulk aging. Im pretty sure I went with just what was included in kit.

 

[Randoneur]

Do y'all pour the untoasted oak shavings and dust in the grape skin bag or lose? Anyone glove up and squeeze the grape bag daily or just punch it down?

I would not put the oak shavings and dust in the sock. I would just dump it in. The dustwill work it's way out of the sock anyway.


Just punch downthe sock until the gas is pushed out of the sock,doit twice a day. I wouldglove up andsqueeze the sockwhen the S.G. is below 1.000 just before racking.


Tweeking may get you a good result, just remember that itcould result in a wine that is not quite sorepresentative ofthe Valpolicella style.


Good luck whatever you do.

 

[Wade E]

I left them all separate also all floating around in unity. Just dunk them a few times a day. Leave the oak in the bag, its easier and does a good job.

 

[tonyt]

Tony, the wine I sent is exactly this kit with the 14 day soak for everything thats included. If you feel that it needs more oak then do while bulk aging. Im pretty sure I went with just what was included in kit.

So look what I am having tonight. Kathy and I love it. Wonderfully clear, lovely multi-layer aroma. Taste is excellent. If there was ever any vegital taste early on it is absolutely gone now. Thanks so much Wade, for letting us taste this, I am committed to following the instructions exactly with the ingredients provided. Well almost. I may rack from primary a couple days prior to 14 days, will watch for SG of 1.02. And I will likely add about 6 months at the end in carboy for aging.

 

[ibglowin]

 

[Dean]

awesome! I told ya it needs no tweaks

 

[tonyt]

Thanks to a cold snap (sorry 29* overnight is a cold snap in SE Texas) I had to wrap up my Valpolicella in a microfleece blankets to get fermentation started.

30 hours later . . . Voila!

 

[ibglowin]

Looking good!

A heating pad (on low) works in a pinch if you don't have a Brew Belt.

 

[tonyt]

Looking good!



A heating pad (on low) works in a pinch if you don't have a Brew Belt.

Well after you hunt around the house for an hour and a half you do the best you can!

George suggested keeping the HV/AC on 70 or so but the dry air wasn't fit for humans. Guess I'll order a brew belt along with whatever I start in January. Could be buying a heating pad too, does George sell those?

 

[Wade E]

Brew belts work awesome.I have 2 of them just for this purpose.

 

[tonyt]

Now that I am back home for a few days I need to rack and degas the Valp. Wouldn't you know it another cold snap (apologies to y'all in the North East). The wine temp is 68*. Is that warm enough to degas optimally? If I need to warm it up with a heating pad do I set the glass carboy on the heating pad? Tape it to the side of the glass? To what temp should I try to get the wine to? And how long should it take to go from 68*? BTW, brew belt is coming in January.