stuck fermentation

[garymc]

I crushed, primary fermented, pressed, and transferred into primaries 34 gallons of muscadine wine in September. Each 5 gallon primary had 10 lbs of sugar, pectic, nutrient, and Red Star Premier Cuvee. Each primary bucket had between 1 and 1.5 gallons of water added with the sugar. When I pressed and transferred to primaries there were 4 x 5 gallon, 1 x 6 gallon, 2 x 3 gallon, and 2 x 1 gallon secondary glass carboys. All 4 of the 5 gallon carboys and the 6 gallon fermented to less than 1 sg. Both 3 gallon and both 1 gallon containers stopped at about 1.04 sg. The only 2 apparent differences were the size of the containers and that upon pressing into the carboys, water was used to top off the 5 gallon carboys, about a gallon each.
Tuesday, 10-30 I mixed up a packet of EC-1118 and added it to the 3 gallon and 1 gallon batches. All of this wine is in my basement at about 65 degrees. I read that EC-1118 will compete and works at low temps. Should I have used kmeta to halt any active yeast before adding the 1118? Should I have racked it off the old sludge in the bottoms of the carboys?

 

[garymc]

I'm getting some warming pads used for sprouting plants. Maybe that will help the temperature.

 

[Julie]

What was your starting hydrometer reading?

 

[garymc]

I don't know. I didn't have it with me when the primaries were done. But each of 7 primaries were done the same in 5 gallon buckets. I have a friend who has a crusher and press. We did that at his place the week of Sept 1 through 6. Then I brought the carboys home a few days ago (6 or 7 weeks later.) Monday I racked 3 of the 5 gallon carboys into a 15 gallon demijohn. They were all dry by sg and by taste. The fourth 5 gallon one and the 6 gallon carboy were also. Each 5 gallon primary had about 2 gallons of grapes and slightly under 2 gallons of water and yeast mix.

 

[robie]

The smaller containers likely got a little colder sooner. I would warm them up to about 75F and give them a good stir. I would make sure they are topped off, since they are not giving off any CO2 right now.

If the SG is as you say, 1.040 and not 1.004, with warming and stirring they should restart on their own. If you pitched the new yeast, that is OK, but probably not absolutely necessary, time will tell. NO, you would not have wanted to add Kmeta to slow the previous yeast. That would just make it even harder to ever start fermentation again.

If the SG should be 1.004, it is not likely fermentation will start again by pitching new yeast, but warming it and giving it a good stir will get it going if anything will.

As a general rule, when fermentation slows and I am not using a cold fermenting yeast like D47, I always add a brew belt to keep the wine warm until it is completely dry.

 

[garymc]

As for the sg being between 1.03 and 1.04, the wine was very sweet tasting, so I'm sure it wasn't 1.004. I got the warming mats plugged in about 7pm today. I put them in cardboard boxes on a table, put the carboys on top of the mats in the boxes and wrapped the area above the shoulders of the carboys with insulating materials to keep the heat in. The warming mats say they'll warm a flat of soil 10 to 20 degrees above room temperature. This would raise the temp from 60 something to 70 or 80 something. I think I'll get a thermometer tonight so I can quit guessing. I figure it will take 12 to 24 hours for the temperature of the carboys to change much, but slower is better, I guess.

 

[garymc]

Broke another hydrometer. I had 2, so I'm still ok. I need to start buying them by the case. I'm seeing a single ring of tiny bubbles coming to the surface. Slow, but they are coming up and popping and being replaced. I stirred the wine good today. Double checked the sg and it's just under 1.04, like 1.038 or so. No measurable change yet.

 

[garymc]

I put thermometers in the boxes with the carboys and the temperature has been in the 80's except one box that had two warming mats going. It got into the 90's. How warm is too warm? The fermentation is disappointing. I'm seeing a single broken line of bubbles around the top of the wine. At this rate it will take months to get to dry.

 

[garymc]

Still dead.

 

[robie]

80'sF is a little too warm, but acceptable. 90'sF is rally too warm! Mid 70'sF is better.

I can't imagine why all the smaller containers got stuck.

At an SG of 1.038, you should be able to pitch more yeast. I would use something strong, like EC 1118.

Prepare a yeast starter of (104F), 1 full cup of water, then add 3 yeast packets to the water. (You have several fermenters to receive yeast I think.) After it gets bubbling well, start adding tablespoon amounts of your wine to it. After awhile you can add wine about 3 or 4 tablespoons at a time. Just make sure it keeps bubbling. Once you have over two total cups of starter and it is still bubbling, let its temperature fall to the same as that of the wine in the fermenter. You can split the starter across all the fermenters. Add the starter into the fermenters and gentle stir. It should take off within a day.

 

[garymc]

I used a packet of EC-1118 on Oct 29 following instructions on packet guessing at temperature, then another on Nov 4 using a thermometer. Distilled water both times. Poured the Water back and forth between 2 containers to oxygenate the second time. Now I'm out of yeast and have to leave for a few days. I'll have the yeast when I return. I think I'll unplug warmers while I'm gone and let it sit at 60 to 65 degrees in the basement.

 

[barryjo]

I used a packet of EC-1118 on Oct 29 following instructions on packet guessing at temperature, then another on Nov 4 using a thermometer. Distilled water both times. Poured the Water back and forth between 2 containers to oxygenate the second time. Now I'm out of yeast and have to leave for a few days. I'll have the yeast when I return. I think I'll unplug warmers while I'm gone and let it sit at 60 to 65 degrees in the basement.

I read somewhere that using distilled water was a no-no. Using filtered water or even tap water was better. Something about the lack of minerals in distilled that the yeast needed to perform. Water high in chlorine should probably be poured back and forth from one container to another to remove that.

 

[garymc]

I think I have found the problem. I was looking at the "Using Your Hydrometer" page by Jack Keller
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/hydrom.asp and it appears that I've put way too much sugar in it. My 3 gallon and one gallon carboys were from a primary bucket of 4 gallons containing 10 pounds of sugar. That would be 15.6% potential alcohol without the sugar in the grapes. Muscadines range from 16 to 25% with most being around the 16% end. I figure if I had 20 pounds of grapes at 15% that would be another 3 pounds of sugar. If you divide 13 pounds of sugar among 4 gallons, that's 3 pounds per gallon. The chart doesn't go that high and neither does any known yeast. 2 pounds 14.6 ounces of sugar in a gallon comes to 18.3%. So now I know I need to reduce the sugar concentration by diluting it with something.
Does anyone have suggestions as to what to use to bring the sugar concentration down and how far to take it? Is 14 or 15% alcohol too strong to be drinkable? One thing I can do is try to let the yeast die again before it gets down to 1.000 and save myself the trouble of backsweetening while preventing it from getting so strong at the same time. What would be a good sg to shoot for, (for sweetness) considering it will be very strong in alcohol?

 

[Midwest Vintner]

I'd go by taste, IMO. Either mix with another batch or use juice to bring it down (after fermentation has been dead for a month or more). I'd say water, but by the time you get enough water to make a difference, it'll be too watered down.

Not sure of how high abv that Cuvee will go to, but the 1118 will hit 18% or better in good conditions. 14-15% will be pretty harsh, but if you let it age for 3-4 years, it'll be better. Unfortunately, when the abv gets that high, it's hard to fix. I do think though, you could either get some kind of juice or another low abv wine to blend it with.

 

[garymc]

It seems the Cuvee is Red Star's answer to Lalvin's 1118. It also does 18 and is recommended for restarting stuck fermentations. So I have 2 super yeasts in it. I have a lot of wine in bulk that is dry, but it's already at 15%. I guess I need to be looking for some juice. Catawba is popular to mix with muscadine, but I have no idea where to get any. I might be able to get some frozen muscadines to use. I'm going on a trip down to the Gulf in about a week and may pass several vineyards and muscadine wineries on the way. Google will come in handy. Any members who live near Interstate 55 in Tn or Ms or Al near Mobile who have muscadines or know of muscadines or juice for sale, send me a message.

 

[garymc]

Well, I mixed 5 gallons of .994 sg dry wine with 3 gallons of 1.035 sg and a couple of 1 gallon jugs that were somewhere in between. I ended up with 10 gallons of 1.015 wine. It's too sweet and too strong, but I'll settle for it until some better solution presents itself. I stabilized it. I still have a 3 gallon carboy at 1.035 and 15 gallon demijohn at .992 The wine in the demijohn is at least 15% and the 3 gallon carboy probably higher. At least time is on my side with this. If I had to I could wait until the muscadine crop comes in next year.

 

[joea132]

I had 2 different California wines with too much sugar even after amelioration and sangee, separately. I plan on letting them sit for a bit longer, stabilizing and blending with a low sugar wine down the road. If nothing comes up I'll bottle in a few years and have a fine wine either way.

 

[kevinlfifer]

I have a similar issue and I suspect I added too much sugar. The Paklab experiment with the cab/merlot blend

I started a amore divino cab/merlot on 10/26
added:
46 oz alexander burgandy blend
1 lb rasins
2 kg recycled frozen skins
sg @ 1.100
going to try the tuscan oak cubes from midwest for a month or so after clearing.

11/12
I racked the Cab/Merlot blend off of the lees. This a the second racking, first was from primary to carboy, this one is to reduce the lees and add the tuscan oak cubes blend. The SG is 1.003 and fine bubbles are still being formed. I will leave it on the oak for a month or so.

Either adding the Alex Sun concentrate slows down the fermentation process, especially in the secondary, or the RC-212 yeast is slower.

12/4
UPDATE on the Cab/merlot blend with "Tuscan" oak cubes.

SG still @1.003-1.004, tastes a bit sweet as well. I added some 4 tsp yeast energizer and a starter of ec-1118. 3 days later 12/6 SG still at 1.003.

Temp in the room is constant 72-76 F

Now some facts, assumptions and math. You guys weigh in please.

1. I am assuming the paklab kits are all very similar in total sugar/kit.
2. I like to start my batches @ SG 1.10 or very close.
3. Fact, past paklab kits needed 1-2 cups of sugar to get to 1.10 @ 5.5 gal
4. Fact, added all of a Alex. 46 oz can of conc. to the batch in place of sugar
5. Math, 46oz @ 68brix = 31 oz sugar or ~4.5 cups granulated
6. With all the above to consider I may have misread my starting SG and I am 2.5 cups or about a lb over on sugar. Not considering the sugar in the lb of raisins.


NOW WHAT????

 

[garymc]

Either depend on beginning and ending hydrometer readings or try to figure out the total amount of sugar in ounces or pounds in the total amount of fluid in gallons and use the chart(s) http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/hydrom.asp
If the potential alcohol from the chart is over18%, then you have an explanation for ec1118 yeast not working.
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/exter...l=http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/hydrom.asp

 

[Tom_S]

I read somewhere that using distilled water was a no-no. Using filtered water or even tap water was better. Something about the lack of minerals in distilled that the yeast needed to perform.

The other problem with distilled water is the lack of dissolved O2 which distilled water tends to have. You can use distilled water if you use plenty of yeast nutrient and splash the water into the fermentation vessel to get oxygen into it, but you'll still have the lack of minerals. Best just to use bottled drinking water or even mineral water.

However, if I were going to use water to top up a batch that was done, I'd use distilled water.