Start fermenting with wine

[WellingtonToad]

On the basis that there is no such thing as a dumb question, I'm going out there...
Each year so far, I have bought yeast. First year, 25g packet - didn't last long before I had to go out and get more for other experiments. All my wines are experiments.
Last year, I bought 500g - way more than I needed. The remainder is in the freezer waiting for this year.
It occurred to me, though, SO2 and Sorbate don't kill yeast, they inhibit the yeast.
So why can't I just take a bottle of last years vintage (check that it is still tasting good) and add it to the must? Shouldn't the yeast and MLB still be in there?

Perhaps I need to do a starter with it, still no problem. Just seems better and safer than "au naturel".

Any thoughts?

 

[richmke]

Seems like it is cheaper to buy the right yeast than to use a good bottle of wine.

The problem is: Not adding enough, and having a slow or stuck fermentation.

Another problem is: Undesirables with the yeast. Some could have grown, and will have a head start with the next batch.

Alternative to using wine: Keep some of the lees and freeze it. Take it from the first racking so it does not have K-Meta or K-Sorbate.

Try it with a gallon and see what happens.

 

[WellingtonToad]

Good answer, I like it. Although I am making wine from grapes at about $2 per bottle, cheaper for the country wines.

But it has given me a new question.

If I use the lees there will be dead yeast and live yeast. Yeast nutrient is apparently dead yeast.

Does this mean that I would be adding yeast with its own nutrient?

 

[grapeman]

I would not try to rely on there being viable live yeast in a bottle of properly prepared wine. There just is not going to be enough of it in there to kick off a new batch reliably. A packet of yeast only costs a dollar and contains the proper amount of healthy yeast to start the batch and be healthy. If you are truly doing experiments you don't want to introduce another unknown into it (not knowing if there is enough yeast to get it going). Just buy a packet.

 

[jamesngalveston]

I would follow grapemans advice. Yeast is cheap, and you can pair it with the wine result you want.

 

[warmuthj]

I do not know if this is advisable but I divide a single yeast packet to make 3 to 5 one gallon batches of different country wines. I hydrate the yeast then add a third to each gallon of must. It has worked well for me on a couple of dozen batches.

 

[cimbaliw]

I agree with above, unknown yeast quantity is probably not your best variable. It's hard to know what the "critical mass" would be to start fermentation and equally as challenging to quantify it effect on flavor profile. On the other hand if you want to try it, why not? Do you do much experimenting with fermentation temp?

 

[WellingtonToad]

Thank-you all. Yes I think I am over using the wine bottle. Richmke's answer was enough for that. As you all have said - not enough yeast. It's there, just not enough.
The idea of doing a big skeeter pee with grapes is of interest, although a country wine would probably be my first experiment.
Not this year though , I have a backlog of yeast in the freezer.
Cimbaliw: no I don't play with temperatures, although most of the time there is difficulty in getting the ferment cold enough. Can't justify any refrigeration plant at this time so If I do it will be with frozen plastic bottles of water. Only really becomes a problem when doing larger batches.

 

[BernardSmith]

I am not a chemist but I understand that yeast if left for long enough without sugar will start to autolyse. Autolysis, I think, means that their digestive chemicals leach out of the yeast and into the wine - their cells break down. A little of this adds some complexity to the wine but a great deal creates flavors that are typically undesirable. and this is one reason why some yeasts are not recommended if you intend to allow the wine to ferment on the lees for more than a couple of months. Racking tends to remove the wine from the yeasts and by the time you are bottling there should be very few yeast cells in the wine. I don't know that it is a good idea to use old yeast cultures in any fresh batch of fruit

 

[mikewatkins727]

If I may add my two cents: Cost of a sachet of yeast is quite minimal and makes enough active yeast for 5 gallons. You may pitch the yeast onto your wine must and it will rehydrate successfully - most times. My preferred method is to pitch the yeast onto a cup of warm water (95º* - 105º F) and wait half an hour. If yeast is active then add ½ cup must and wait 4 hours. Wait another 4 hours and add another ½ cup of must. Keep adding every 4 hours ¼ - ½ cup must for 12 or more hours. When ready to pitch yeast, try to 'float' it on the wine must. After the first day vigorously stir the must. Yeast doubles in population every 2 hours. Use a quart canning jar. You should keep this starter in a warm place while getting it started.