Stabilization

[talyrand]

I believe I understand the basics of stabilization but I am missing something. I understand that Campden tablets are used to kill wild yeasts without killing your yeast. I also understand that Sorbate is used to keep the yeast from multiplying thus stopping a fermentation. I understand that stopping a fermentation in full swing is difficult. I have also read about cold stabilization and I understand that it involves getting the must very cold in an attempt to decrease the population of yeast and that this is used in combination with the other chemicals I have mentioned. So with that being said here is the question:

What is the difference between stabilizing a must in full fermentation and stabilizing a must that has finished fermentation?

I am using EC-1118 and getting about 18% alcohol content. I am afraid to backsweeten because it appears that the yeast has processed all of the sugar and is ready to get more. I do not want my bottles to explode! And 18% is too strong. I am looking to create a sweet sparkling wine. I am not sure how to get the sparkle and back-sweeten. I really like the flavor and sparkle of the wine right as it comes out of the primary. But my attempts to stabilize and bottle at this point have failed.

Any advice for a novice?

 

[1tonmama]

Stable = No more fermentation / No more yeast?

Stabilization should be done at the end of secondary ferment when all of the sugar content has been fermented off. I wouldn't think that you'd want to stop a full-on fermentation to leave a high sugar content in your wine. Wine can be backsweetened once it's dry and stabilized for that purpose.

Have you degassed your must prior to stabilizing? The wine wouldn't stabilize properly with the CO2 from the fermentation present. If you're looking for a sparkling wine, I would think that the CO2 gets added back to the wine at the end before bottling? I could be off the mark on adding the CO2 part though... I'm not familiar with sparkling wines and this is complete the beer brewer in me talking.

 

[mmadmikes1]

You will not stop an active fermentation without sterile filtering. Campden (K-Meta)does not kill yeast, wild or the stuff you add. Cold stabilization is really not stabilization, when it warms up it starts up. Cold is used to get the wine to drop out acid in the form of crystals that form when wine is cold. My advise is make another batch and blend it. Up side is you have more wine to drink. In future if you want a sweet wine use a yeast with a lower Alcohol tolerance. I dont use either K Meta or sorbate to control yeast. I let the alcohol do that.

 

[Putterrr]

You could try this method to carbonate your beverage and use heat to kill the yeast

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

 

[DoctorCAD]

You could try this method to carbonate your beverage and use heat to kill the yeast

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

How much of the alcohol, that you spent 6 weeks to a year attempting to make, gets lost when heating wine to 190 degrees for 10 minutes. I'm guessing that you have grape juice when you are done....

 

[Putterrr]

I you check the post you will see that heating is done after capping thus nothing is lost. It looks like an interesting process

cheers

 

[Arne]

If you want it sweet and sparkling, I think you will have to use a nonfermentable sweetener of some kind. Also if you are going to try and carbonate in the bottle you do not want to stabalize your wine. If you do the chances of refermenting for the carbonation are pretty slim. With 18% alcohol you mite have a problem getting the wine to referment enough to carbonate it. Good luck with it, Arne.

 

[btom2004]

You could try this method to carbonate your beverage and use heat to kill the yeast

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

I guess this is a quick drinker? I would think that the dead yeast left in the bottles would give you an off taste down the line.

 

[DoctorCAD]

I you check the post you will see that heating is done after capping thus nothing is lost. It looks like an interesting process

cheers

Might be OK on a sealed beer bottle that is made to take pressure, but I wonder how a wine bottle would take to the heat and pressure that pasteurizing by this method.

 

[1tonmama]

Found this very detailed post on sparkling wine too...

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f71/how-make-sparkling-wine-10519/

 

[REDBOATNY]

I guess this is a quick drinker? I would think that the dead yeast left in the bottles would give you an off taste down the line.

Would it be any different than the yeast in the the bottom of homebrew beer? I am going to try this on my next batch of SP. I don't want to buy another corni keg ( gave away a few, years back) I think sparkling Skeeter pee would be great.

 

[mmadmikes1]

At 18% it is not going to.restart. Sweeten the wine, put it in a pop keg and put it under 18 lbs of pressure. It will carbonate and if it restarts, no big deal, the keg can handle the pressure all day long. No need to worry about it. You will not be able to naturally carb it. But unless you have degassed already m it may still be carbonated

 

[talyrand]

Sparkling Wine

Found this very detailed post on sparkling wine too...

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f71/how-make-sparkling-wine-10519/

This is the traditional method of making Champagne. I saw this demonstrated at a winery in Kentucky back in January. Pretty neat to watch. Very time-consuming and some of the steps look a little intimidating. That being said, this is how it was done for a long time.

 

[talyrand]

You could try this method to carbonate your beverage and use heat to kill the yeast

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

This looks awesome! But I wonder if the heat will impact the chemistry in the wine negatively?

 

[talyrand]

It looks as though I have a few different methods with potential listed here:

Traditional Sparkling Wine: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f71/how-make-sparkling-wine-10519/
Stovetop Pastuerization: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

Use a yeast that goes dry around 12% and try to bottle before it goes flat.

BackSweeten and Carbonate in a Pop Keg:

I have 20 Gallons of 18% bulk aging in the basement so the last method is looking pretty good to me right now.

Does anyone have any suggestions for non fermentable backsweeteners?

Also, for future batches, yeasts under 18%?

 

[saramc]

It looks as though I have a few different methods with potential listed here:

Use a yeast that goes dry around 12% and try to bottle before it goes flat.

Does anyone have any suggestions for non fermentable backsweeteners?

Also, for future batches, yeasts under 18%?

At 18% the only option is force carbing.

Moving forward, trying to determine the right time to bottle a still fermenting wine in hopes of bottle carbing is usually a recipe for disaster. Simply because the wine will be young, raw, and cloudy. You will have sediment, even more than normal when bottle carbing simply because you have not started the racking/clearing/aging steps.

I vote for fermenting to dry, priming the entire volume, backsweetening with a non-fermentable if desired, using two plastic pop/water bottles (which are close to same volume as your wine bottles) as a carbonation control device so you know when you have achieved carbonation and then stovetop pasteurizing. Simply because I am not setup to force carb and there is something awesome about bottle carbing.

Had this common list of priming adjuncts for a 5gal batch:
Corn Sugar – ¾ cup
Turbinado Sugar – ¾ cup
Demerara Sugar – ¾ cup
Molasses – 2/3 cup
Honey – ½ - ¾ cup
Maple Syrup – ½ - ¾ cup
Cane (Table) Sugar – 2/3 cup
Muscavado Sugar – ¾ cup
Dried Malt Extract – 1 ¼ cup
Corn Syrup – 2/3 cup
Tapioca Syrup – 2/3 cup
Candi Sugar – ¾ cup
Brown Sugar – 2/3 cup
Rice Syrup Solids – ¾ cup
Candi Syrup – 2/3 cup
Sorghum Syrup – 2/3 cup

List of yeasts here: http://winemakermag.com/guide/yeast

Non-fermentable sugars typically include: xylitol, sucralose, white stevia(not green or grey powder, it is poor quality), lactose, asparatame, saccharin and maltodextrin. I am sure I am missing something. I would recommend bench trials when adding them, you may find you prefer a combination of them, taste the sample chilled and room temp, and aerate the sample if you can as it presents a better taste profile as you trial. Also, make sure your non-fermentable does not have an anticaking agent added because it tends to cloud your wine, the less additives the better. I currently like monk fruit extract, it is 300 times sweeter than sugar, but I need to research to determine if it is a fermentable sugar--for now it goes in my coffee.

 

[mmadmikes1]

At 18%, non fermentable sugars is not necessary. This wine will not restart. The yeast will die without any help of alcohol poisoning . All the other methods other than carbing artificially will not work. OK I lie a little here, you could use a moonshiners yeast and maybe get it started again but that stuff has a ABV level of 22% and if 18% is to high then 22 will rock.