Sparkling Apple Cider question

[jobe05]

Since Halloween I have been sitting here looking at these 3 gallons of apple cider that I have and am wondering if I could make an aplle cider sparkling wine.

The ingredients say: Apples, Potassium Sorbate & sodium benzodate to maintain freshness.

Do you think that there is enough sorbate in it to prevent it from fermenting?

Maybe some air time,............. yeast nutrient and energizer and a good yeast starter made with welches apple juice?

Would I ferment the cider like a normal wine, clear it then put it in the champaign bottles with some yeast to get it bubbly?

 

[Wade E]

Thats a tough call as both the sorbate and benzoate will hinder fermentation. Im not to sure I would try this. I have a place near me that sells cider and will sell you cider untreated specially for fermenting. I would look into a place near you for a product like this Jobe as its a lot of work and very hard to tell when fermentation is in process especially with something that will have sediment like a cider.

 

[grapeman]

I say go for it Jobe. If it's going to spoil anyway, why not give it a shot. Put it in a primary and keep the temps up with it in the mid to upper 70's for a couple days, stirring vigorously three or four times a day. On the third day, add sugar to 1.090 and make a yeast starter and add when to proper temp. Keep it stirred a few times the first day or so. I would also add some pectic enzyme to package instructions. If it's going to work, it should be boiling away after a few days. I would try Lalvin 71-B-1122 on this one to help mellow out some of the malic in the apple cider. If it doesn't work- you aren't out a whole lot.


Of course if you have it nearby, the fresh cider Wade suggests would be the safest bet- and you just have to drink 3 gallons of cider before it spoils!

 

[NorthernWinos]

We make a carbonated apple cider....there is a Thread somewhere on the Forum


I use frozen apple concentrate [any brand]to bring the S.G. to 1.060 to 1.065...[no higher] First batch I did use a little sugar as I ran out of frozen juice.


Add the usual additives....I had the best luck using Munton's Ale Yeast [gives it a nice flavor]. Champagne yeast gave it a different flavor..not bad...just differentthan the ale yeast. I am planning to use Côte des Blancs next time...it is suppose to be good for ciders....but use what you like


We prime with corn sugar and bottle in beer bottles with crown caps. It's a nice beverage...even with the lower alcohol they do sneak up on you.


Here is the Thread on Hard apple Cider....


http://www.finevinewines.com//Wiz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=894&KW=apple+cider&PN=1


I needed some hand holding to get started...but now it is a staple around here....especially on a hot summer evening.

Edited by: Northern Winos

 

[jobe05]

Thanks NW, I read all 14 pages of post and it seems like you were just getting this next batch going good when the thread ended.

How did that last batch turn out with the EC-1118?

I have EC-1118, Red Star Cote des Blancs and others of course but what would you suggest?

Im thinking with these 3 gallons stirred up well a few times over the next day or 2 then add a few frozen apple concentrate it may take off if I have a good yeast starter made with one can of the apple concentrate. Or should I get enough apple juice to bring tis up to 5 gallons?

Also, what is "Corn Sugar"? Where can I get it? Grocery store or beer making supply store?

Wade: The likely hood of getting fresh apple cider this year around here is slim to none! Due to the deep freeze that we had over the easter weekend killed off 80% of this years crop. The remaining 20% of the apples are getting taken by wild animals looking or food, or are getting picked for juice. The are very small and dry due to the dry weather we have had this year. There was one guy making juice that I know of this year. He said that last year, 13 bushels in his press would give up 22 to 28 gallons of juice, this year 13 bushels is giving up 8-9 gallons of cider. So getting cider locally is out of the question this year.

 

[Wade E]

Corn sugar is Dextrose obtained from cornstarch. It is available at grocery stores and any wine/beer making supply place as it is easier for the yeast to turn into alc.

 

[NorthernWinos]

We thought that the cider with the EC-1118 had a sharper taste, and it didn't carbonate as quickly...the yeast must have used up more of the sugar and killed itself. Maybe use your Côte des Blancs as it will finish with more yeast and sugar left...[ I guess that's what it does]


Next batch will be Munton's Ale Yeast or the Côte des Blancs...not sure yet...Have both handy.


The corn sugar you can get in the beer making supply area...you'll only need 3/4 - 1 cup for 5-6 gallons.


Adding 2 or 3 gallons of store bought juice will dilute what ever is in your Cider...so that might be a good thing to do....Then sweeten with cans of frozen apple concentrate till you get to S.G. of 1.060 or so...not sure what % alcohol we get...we try for 8%.


Use only beer or Champagne bottles that take crown caps...screw type beer bottles won't work...Maybe those plastic Pet bottles might work...they sell caps to fit those....At least they do at the beer store that I go to [that's theHealth Food Co-op...where all the 'veggie' people are so skinny]


We pour into a glass to serve as there is some residue in the bottom of the bottle...Sometimes the bottles need a bottle brush to get clean...so rinse them right away.

 

[jobe05]

I have been getting some nice heavy green champaign bottles from the winery that gives me bottles. Right now I have 35 bottles, but they are all green, no clear ones. these arn't to dark so I can see through them empty, I don't know about that when they are full. Maybe I'll just go to the store and buy a cheap bottle of something that comes in a clear bottle so that I'll have one.

Speaking of bottles, not including the 3+ cases of champaign and the 20 or so cases of Balisima bottles that no one can have, I have now about 75 cases of bottles, delabeled and clean and I get more every week. I will need some of these, but I would imagine that it would be worth the effort for some board member ( long time member) to drive or make arrangements for pick up, that could use 50 cases of bottles between brown hock style (but nicer), chardonnay style light and dark color and green hock bottles. Fifty cases of bottles at $12 is $600 dollars worth of bottles............ Worth the trip?

I say long time members because every time I post this, I get bombarded with PM's from new people who were told of this free offer, and every time, these new members wanted to know when I could deliver them........ Ohio, Georgia, and other places. I like to be helpful when I can, but I aint stupid..................... Well......... ahhh....... you know what I mean.

Anyway...............

My sweety went to the store and got me 2 - 64 oz apple juice with no additives and 8 cans of frozen concentrate. This should bring me to 6 gallons. This will also dilute the original apple cider with sorbate to 50%. I'm going to pour the 3 gallons cider in a fermenter and let it air till tomorrow. Then I will throw everything together and add the yeast, Cote des blancs.

I gotta get that Port bottled first......... about 70 - 375 balisima bottles to clean and keep standing upright while I fill them and cork them...... Not easy.

 

[Wade E]

Thats a lot of de labeled bottles buddy! Maybe you can exchange them for Champagne stoppers, wires, and corn sugar.

 

[NorthernWinos]

Do not rehydrate the frozen concentrate with water...just add it pure...it is to bring the sugar up.


You probably will only need about 6 or 7 of those to bring 5 1/2 gallons of juice up to the S.G 1.060+


The 2 - 64oz bottles are one gallon...you might need one or two more 64oz bottles.....


OR...


You may use the extra frozen cans and rehydrate them a bit. Would be nice to have some extra juice on hand.


Play with the supplies you have....have fun.Edited by: Northern Winos

 

[jobe05]

Thats what I was thinking of NW, just play with the last can or so of apple juice concentrate, and perhaps rehydrate one to bring to 6 gallons, and 1.060 to 1.070 as per your other post on this.

I'm sorry no one was there at first for you to hold your hand when you did this, but I sure am happy your here while I do mine.

Thanks

 

[NorthernWinos]

If anyone comes to visit today or tomorrow or you go back to the store...get another gallon or two of apple juice....you never know the S.G. of the juices vary...you may need all 8 cartons of frozen concentrate.


As for filling your little bottles...can you squeeze a bunch into a flat cooking pot...or fill a flat bottom bowl with a bunch of them...a muffin tin, tray...etc. There has to be a way of holding them upright and stable.

 

[jobe05]

I put a bunch of the bottles in my laundry sink (about 50). I have a Buon vino auto gravity filler to fill them so thats the easy part. The problem occurs when I have to cork them. Remove one and cork it, put it back, but while it's out, the one's next to where it use to be wants to fall over, causing a domino effect. These are really nice bottles but a pain in the butt to work with.

I was thinking of cutting holes a piece of plywood with short legs on it that would fit in the sink that each bottle would fit into. I would guess I could get 30 or 40 holes in the peice of ply wood. That would help hold the bottles up. But like most men............... it was just a thought, and it will never get done............

I may just start with 5 gallons rather than 6 based on having enough stuff to do 5 gallons well, and only having 5 gallon carboys available right now. That would work out well for me.

 

[jobe05]

OOooops.............

Just checked the apple juice my wife got for me and it is 126 oz, or 1 gallon each (2 of them).

So with 8 cans of concentrate, 2 gallons apple juice and 3 gallons apple cider, I should have enough to top up to 6 gallons with a little water and still be at 1.060.......... Hopefully, if not, 5 1/2 gallons it is. I would imagine it is more important to get the SG correct before worrying about that last 1/2 gallon...........................

................ Did I just say that!

Edited by: jobe05

 

[NorthernWinos]

Think you'll be fine...I usually have some extra must and put it in a bottle/airlock for topping up.


We will see photos along the whole process won't we?????

 

[jobe05]

I'll break the Camera out tomorrow although what you have missed so far:

Bottled 62 bottles of Blackberry Port.......... Drank about 2 bottles....... Man this batch is the best so far. Not touching a single bottle for at least a year!

Gonna send Joan 1 so she can age hers since this batch will have her label on them. How ironic......... she makes a great label which forces me to make a better Port.........

I put the 3 - 1 gallon jugs of apple cider with sorbates in the fermenter to "air"out till tomorrow.

I took 1 can of apple concentrate (thawed) and one can of warm water and put it in a 1/2 gallon jug with 1 teaspoon yeast energizer and 1 teaspoon yeast nutrient, stirred well and added the yeast to rehydrate for adding to the must tomorrow.

It is from this point, I will take some pics. Pictures are a good idea, the teacher needs to see what the student is doing at all times.

 

[NorthernWinos]

I post a lot of photos and my recipes...Then if I ever crash my computer...loose my note book or Heaven forbid the house burn down...I can always access my notes right here.

 

[grapeman]

NW, why do you do the sparkling cider at 8% ABV? Just curious. I would have thought being sparkling that it would hold up to a higher alcohol. I had recommended 71b-1122 because it is a rapid starter and produces smoother more aromatic wines that mature quickly. It also eats up to 40% of the malic acid in the apple juice- a good thing unless it is a super sweet apple juice. Sounds like you have lots of help on this one Jobe

 

[NorthernWinos]

I might try that yeast some time too.


We prefer the Hard Cider to be lower in alcohol...it is a nice breakfast drink for camping you know!!!!!....actually I like it after a long hot day outside....it knocks your socks off for some reason.

 

[jobe05]

OK......... I put everything together this morning, with pics of course.

I realized that after I started mixing everything together how stupid I was.......... I should have added all the Non-stabilized ingredients together and got it rolling, slowly adding the 3 gallons of apple cider with the sorbates.............

Anyways......... I didn't.

Here's a pic of the 3 gallons apple cider I had poured into the bucket yesterday, and stirred it up a few time hoping to release some of the sorbates.

These are the extra ingredients that I am adding to this that contain no preservatives at all (According to the labels)

I started a yeast starter yesterday with a can of concentrate (mixed with 1 can of water), teaspoon yeast nutrient and yeast energizer, with the yeast to let it get started really good before adding to the must.

I mixed together with the 3 gallons of apple juice (w/additives) that has been sitting for 24 hours, 2 gallons of apple juice and 8 cans of apple juice concentrate and the yeast starter. Starting SG was right at 1.070. It's pretty hard to see, but that is 1.070

I mixed it up really well to get some air into the mix so the yeast will have an easier time starting up again. Just shy of the 6 gallon mark, and with a starting SG of 1.070, if I finish at 1.000 or lower, that will be over 9 % ABV so I have some wiggle room to bring this up to the full 6 gallon mark, but I will wait to see if it loses to much flavor for me, I will add apple juice at the end to flavor back, or I may need the wiggle room if this doesn't start, I ma have to do a different starter ad add the must to it, little by little.

The air lock does have some pressure on it, so it may go well.

On another note: I started my Hazelnut Brandy kit last week, and this week it just sits there at 1.020 with no movement.

The east was a little old but since it started I figured it would do the trick, so I may add a new package and see what it does.

Wine room is starting to get back to normal since I got a few of the carboys bottles up over the past couple of weeks.

I used the black pepper (about 1/4 tsp) in a small 1500ml bottle of the Blackberry Port to see what the flavor would be like and it was awesome! A little overpowering in the smaller bottle but when I added it to the 6 gallons, it gave that just right peppery taste. This last batch was my best yet. It is boxed and in the dark for at least a year.
Edited by: jobe05