Sour Sweetness

[Frank Ferment]

Hi,

Two batches of red/white (3:2) grape juice has been fermenting for 3 days. One is in a 2L (food-grade) bottle and the other is in a carboy (1 gallon). Today, I added some invert sugar to both containers and noticed that the bottled one has a strange sour odor to it (the other smells sweet). If I'm not mistaken, it seems that this odor is the result of oxidation (due to vigorously shaking the bottle after the addition of sugar). I have read about several remedies:

*racking several times until the odor is no longer present
*boiling
*leaving it alone

Before I start trying the first two options, I'd like to get your opinion on what this could be (what's causing this awful smell) and what can I do about it? For instance, if it's turning into vinegar, then I heard that the boiling and adding more yeast might help...?

Thanks in advance!

Edited by: Frank Ferment

 

[joeswine]

WHAT KIND OF JUICE?

 

[Frank Ferment]

I squeezed it myself.

 

[Frank Ferment]

boiled, etc... Besides the air, everything was pretty much sterile.

 

[grapeman]

Were these containers open or closed (covered or with an airlock)? The sugar should be added at the beginning of fermentation not 3 days into it. Did you add any Campden tablets or k-meta a day before pitching the yeast? In my opinion, boiling is a good way to ruin a nice wine (just my opinion). Generally the wines that turn out worst the vintner has boiled the must.


A bit more information could be helpful.

 

[Frank Ferment]

I have not purchased anything besides the yeast (Lalvin EC-1118), because at first I didn't know any better and then I figured that Campden (etc) weren't around several decades (or so) ago and yet they still manged to make delicious wine. Just hype, a way of making extra money... I don't know. I'll be better prepared for next time, though. For now, I need to try and work with what I've got:

Batch#1 - small carboy (I found it in the garage with no airlock, so I had to manufacture one)
Batch#2 - plastic bottle, with the lid loosely on (slight, maybe more, sour smell coming out of it)

It's nothing special, but it's a start...!

Please note, I didn't put all the sugar in (yes, I will eventually get a hydrometer!), because I kept reading from various sources that too much sugar will kill the yeast. What's wrong with adding sugar while it's still fermenting? ...I suppose it's oxidation, right? Doesn't the same thing happen with racking? I'm sure that there are chemicals which control oxidation, but since I have none and cannot get any in the near future, then what are my options for now?

I've tasted batch#2 (sour smell) and it actually tastes pretty good; it's flavorful, bubbly, acidic, and I definitely tasted the alcohol.

What would you do? (I don't want to throw it out, by the way)

 

[joeswine]

why would you want to boil the wine,never heard of it,can someone explain.

 

[Wade E]

Ive never heard of that either and dont recommend it at all.

 

[swillologist]

Don't throw it away Frank. Time will do wonders for you wine.

 

[Frank Ferment]

@joeswine,

*TO STERILIZE IT*

...Since I didn't have any Campden tablets, I think it was a good idea! So far, the smell isn't getting any worse.

Btw, why would the wine taste worse after it has been boiled (the juice, I mean)?

Thanks!

 

[grapeman]

I am not sure of the details of it, but boiling the grape juice or must affects the flavor of the wine. That's why the kit makers use flash pasteurization and don't boil it to condense it. You are making wine not grape jelly.

 

[smokegrub]

Interesting discussion. Although boiling to concentrate a juice may introduce unusual flavors, I find it interesting that the juice I have obtained by steam-juicing has produced some of the best wines I have made and no funky flavors whatsoever. The juice gets very near, if not at, a boiling temperature but it is not concentrated by evaporation except, perhaps, to a minor extent. Any evaporation is no doubt more than offset by water vapor condensing in the pan containing the juice.

 

[grapeman]

I think the difference is the quickness of the steaming- similar to the flash pasteurization used commercially. It keeps the volatiles much more stable.

 

[Wade E]

When I sweeten my wine after fermentation is done by simmering a like juice down maybe I might be doing the same thing but it is a much smaller amount and not the whole batch and I have never noticed a difference in taste other then concentrated and sweeter since Ive simmered out lots of juice. So maybe what you have done is about the same as what I do just in a larger quantity the more I think of it.

 

[joeswine]

try this on for size ,if i wanted to make a wine reduction i would then boil the wine to condense it and thicken it,this also adds a sweet sour flavor to the sauce,if i were to boil down belsamic vingar it would turn thick and sweeter,but not sour,so you may have trurn your wine just this side of vinagar but still with a sweetness to back side is it sweet on the back side?//////////////////////////////////////////////