What causes my wine to be sour? and

[Snafflebit]

Continuing developments...

I researched degassing methods. I wanted to try the brake bleeder method, then I decided to drive into Reno and pick up a degassing whip. I was concerned about whipping in air. As it turns out, that was not going to be a problem This wine had so much CO2 dissolved in it that the vat looked like a bathtub of pink Mr. Bubbles.
This picture does not do justice to what was coming out once I got the nerve to turn up the drill speed. The good news is that the wine was essentially self-blanketing with CO2 when I was not able to maintain the sulfites.

Cabernet Krakatoa is a good description.

I did not remove all the CO2, I stopped whipping at 20 minutes. And I read that having a little dissolved CO2 is good for the flavor profile.

I did some blending and bottling tonight and I am enjoying a glass of the last, half filled bottle. This wine is completely different than the starting product. The carbonation was hiding so much of the characteristics of the wine. I can taste the tannins and there are plenty of tannins, very nice linger on the tongue. Acid is well balanced too, not the bitey sensation from the CO2 and the fruit bomb characteristic is toned down. I think a lot of fruit blew off when degassing because the workshop smells like a jam kitchen. And there is a touch of acetic acid I can detect on the finish, but it is way down on the profile, not distracting at this level.

I am super excited about this wine. Once the bottle shock wears off I will provide a follow-up.

 

[David Violante]

I would not have expected that much CO2 at all… I’m now thinking about some of mine that have just rested in carboys until I bottled them. I recently became the owner of a decanter and for the past month have been decanting my bottles into it. There’s a surprising amount of foam initially, and it does taste better afterwards as well. Now I’m rethinking some of my process a bit.

 

[Snafflebit]

My cellar temperature stays in the 60F in the summer and down in the 40s in the winter. It think that is my issue.

 

[Jovimaple]

I don't specifically degas my wines beyond splash racking with my AIO pump. That seems to be enough to get the process started and aging finishes it.

 

[Snafflebit]

I unbottled some of my 2020 wine. It causes the burning sensation in my throat also. I degassed the glass by agitating with a plastic fork and the wine is much better.

I would have to uncork 15 cases of wine to fix it. Argh! I don't see that happening. Maybe it will be good topping wine.

 

[winemanden]

I unbottled some of my 2020 wine. It causes the burning sensation in my throat also. I degassed the glass by agitating with a plastic fork and the wine is much better.

I would have to uncork 15 cases of wine to fix it. Argh! I don't see that happening. Maybe it will be good topping wine.

Just decant it well when you open a bottle and let it breathe!

 

[wood1954]

vacuum racking works great.

 

[Snafflebit]

I will need to get my wines warmer to 70 F at some point in the aging process to get the CO2 out, maybe with a vacuum racking. I have looked at the AIO wine pump, or make my own vacuum racking from parts. I recall seeing bubbles in the racking cane and wondered where they were coming from. LOL

 

[Snafflebit]

Degassing another batch of Cabernet Krakatoa. Hope I don’t fall over dead in here.



It is hard to believe this wine is 2 years old.

I’m finding a technique. High speed bursts for 30 seconds then let the foam subside.

Edit: I just took a taste and this wine is lovely.

 

[ChuckD]

It is hard to believe this wine is 2 years old.

That is odd. None of my wines to-date have had any residual CO2 after a year in bulk. But my cellar hits the low 60’s in the summer.

How many times did you rack it?

 

[Snafflebit]

That is odd. None of my wines to-date have had any residual CO2 after a year in bulk. But my cellar hits the low 60’s in the summer.

How many times did you rack it?

Racked three times, but this wine went through a second spontaneous MLF the following year, so I did not want to rack during that period, which would need SO2.
I am very gentle with my racking, maybe too gentle.

 

[David Violante]

I’m envisioning a Cabernet Krakatoa label…

 

[Snafflebit]

I’m envisioning a Cabernet Krakatoa label…

Here is some ideas that Midjourney thinks the label should look like. Maybe if there is some LSD mixed into the wine! Nightmare fuel right there.

 

[David Violante]

And then there’s this level of wine volcano…

 

[ChuckD]

And then there’s this level of wine volcano…

I’ve done worse.

 

[Snafflebit]

If I had degassed in the carboy..... Wow that is crazy.

 

[CDrew]

Very cool. I *think* vacuum racking takes care of all the CO2. I bottle at about 13 months from fermentation, and don't generally have CO2 problems. Yet I did once. In 2020 I had my blend of leftovers, and final sulfited with effervescent CO2. It generally works great. But if used just before bottling it will cause a slight effervescence in the finished wine. Lesson learned for me.

But, I can highly recommend moving wine around by vacuum. It's gentle and removes CO2 pretty reliably. And it sounds like you are getting ahead of all of your concerns. That's cool too.

 

[Snafflebit]

This has been a frustrating problem, because every time I sampled the wine it tasted different and I could not get a handle on the problem. My panel of tasters thought I was being too hard on myself! Very kind but it did not help me find the solution.

 

[winemanden]

I’ve done worse.

Strange way to aerate your wine!

 

[Rice_Guy]

This has been a frustrating problem, because every time I sampled the wine it tasted different and I could not get a handle on the problem. My panel of tasters thought I was being too hard on myself! Very kind but it did not help me find the solution.

When I am doing bench trials I will sample several times over a one day period. What tastes acceptable or good changes and I frequently pick a different level of best at breakfast than I did the night before. My guideline is TA. The higher the TA the more sour the wine will taste and the more back sweetening is required for balance.

A guideline for where to balance TA on wine;
after club contest this year I collected eight first place wines which are the red triangles
View attachment 81200
The sample set "cloud" is primarily commercial wines, with some collected in the vinters club and here on WineMakingTalk
NOTE: TA is one of several quality traits which a first place wine has as absence of flavor defect, appropriate aroma for the variety and clarity , , , etc.
NOTE 2: this is an easy test, if ya'll are interested in your wine ,,, PM me

. . . . note, if I have a good pH I will never add acid. For a finished product keeping the TA as low as possible will allow me to not back sweeten to a high level. I will only make a total acidity addition at the final racking where I am doing bottling decisions. . . . . . A $100 bottle of wine tastes smooth, not having long acid notes.
. . . I expect the TA to decrease with time as esters are created, ie it will taste sweeter in two years.