pH drift: Apple products

[MiBor]

If you use bentonite then assume you are at 0 after bentonite.

@Hazelemere can you elaborate on the above statement?

I have used bentonite often on white wines with 60-70 ppm free SO2 and when I measured free SO2 again (aeration-oxidation) after a month or so I haven't noticed a loss of more than 10-20 ppm.

What makes you say that, if bentonite is used, the SO2 goes to 0?

 

[Hazelemere]

@Hazelemere can you elaborate on the above statement?

I have used bentonite often on white wines with 60-70 ppm free SO2 and when I measured free SO2 again (aeration-oxidation) after a month or so I haven't noticed a loss of more than 10-20 ppm.

What makes you say that, if bentonite is used, the SO2 goes to 0?

I measured it i.e. free sulphite. If you are talking total sulphite measurement then your 10-20 ppm drop assuming its all free sulphite makes sense. Aeration oxidation can measure free or total sulphite on separate test but not both at the same time. 60-70 ppm free may be okay for a must but is too high for a wine because you will smell sulphur dioxide at that level. 60-70 ppm total should give 20-23 free which is fine at bottling. You can't smell it at that level nor will the wine oxidize more than a tiny bit. When we crush and grind apples we sulphite them at about 25 ppm free, bentonite then resulphite off bentonite to about 60-70 ppm sulphite total. Our whites never smell of sulphur nor do they look like or taste like they've been oxidized.

 

[Rice_Guy]

a good article:
https://academic.oup.com/lambio/article-abstract/48/2/149/6701145
and another
https://www.researchgate.net/public...teria_Contribution_to_Wine_Quality_and_Safety

* after dealing with 2022 apple containing wines I have both Lysozyme and Bactiless on the shelf
* in the future I will ALWAYS keep the pH of a must close to 3.2 to 3.3,
* I am not as afraid of Potassium Sorbate, the best flavor apple out of 2022 was a test trying to create “bubble gum flavor” ethyl sorbate. It still got some of the wild LAB fermentation taste, pH was pushed up to 4.02 (0.3 unit gain) TA was pushed down 0.17% loss, and between adding K sorbate and now the gravity dropped from 1.001 to 0.995.

*** CONCLUSION; ***
The addition of K sorbate and Bactiless at about 1.003 +/- looks like a technique to stop fermentation while there is residual sugar, ,,, AND retain aromatics while preventing wild Lactic acid bacteria off notes. A proof of concept test is in progress.