WineXpert Slow to clear?

[Rmarsh]

Hi All,

New to making my own wine and started out with a Winexpert Sauvignon Blanc and a batch of Dragon's blood just for good measure.

The Kit progressed well along the timeline prescribed by the directions, except my secondary fermentation was about 4 days slower than indicated, possibly because the temp was only at 72F. That said, I did wait until the SG dropped to .996 before clarifying, degassing and stabilizing. I used a drill-mounted whip to degas and got a bit of a foam-over but once I cleaned that up I continued degassing per the instructions. After a couple of days I noticed there was a noticeable clear layer forming on top of the slightly less clear wine below, about two inches below the surface. A coupe days later the cleared layer seemed to have disappeared instead of lowering deeper into the carboy. It's been a week now and the wine is clearer than it was when I added the agents, but there is no stark gradient between a clear and unclear layer as some have described. Is something wrong?

Thanks, looking forward to learning a lot from you all!

-Ryan

 

[jgmann67]

Hi All,

New to making my own wine and started out with a Winexpert Sauvignon Blanc and a batch of Dragon's blood just for good measure.

The Kit progressed well along the timeline prescribed by the directions, except my secondary fermentation was about 4 days slower than indicated, possibly because the temp was only at 72F. That said, I did wait until the SG dropped to .996 before clarifying, degassing and stabilizing. I used a drill-mounted whip to degas and got a bit of a foam-over but once I cleaned that up I continued degassing per the instructions. After a couple of days I noticed there was a noticeable clear layer forming on top of the slightly less clear wine below, about two inches below the surface. A coupe days later the cleared layer seemed to have disappeared instead of lowering deeper into the carboy. It's been a week now and the wine is clearer than it was when I added the agents, but there is no stark gradient between a clear and unclear layer as some have described. Is something wrong?

Thanks, looking forward to learning a lot from you all!

-Ryan

There's nothing wrong at all. You are doing fine. Once you rack off the lees from this stage, you'll want to be patient. You can age in the carboy for quite a while. Prolonged aging, especially at your temperature will allow for a natural release of CO2.

You can manually degas, of course - with a whip, or a vacuum system of one kind or another. But, even then, wait at least until your wine is crystal clear to bottle.

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to WMT!

I agree -- what you're seeing is completely normal. And kit timelines are "For amusement purposes only."

 

[heatherd]

Hi All,

New to making my own wine and started out with a Winexpert Sauvignon Blanc and a batch of Dragon's blood just for good measure.

The Kit progressed well along the timeline prescribed by the directions, except my secondary fermentation was about 4 days slower than indicated, possibly because the temp was only at 72F. That said, I did wait until the SG dropped to .996 before clarifying, degassing and stabilizing. I used a drill-mounted whip to degas and got a bit of a foam-over but once I cleaned that up I continued degassing per the instructions. After a couple of days I noticed there was a noticeable clear layer forming on top of the slightly less clear wine below, about two inches below the surface. A coupe days later the cleared layer seemed to have disappeared instead of lowering deeper into the carboy. It's been a week now and the wine is clearer than it was when I added the agents, but there is no stark gradient between a clear and unclear layer as some have described. Is something wrong?

Thanks, looking forward to learning a lot from you all!

-Ryan

Ryan,

Give it time to clear and degass, maybe a month. Definitely do not bottle the wine until it is crystal clear because it won't get clearer in the bottle.

The 72 degree temp is fine.

It would be good to rack the wine off the sediment.

Good luck!

 

[bkisel]

Welcome to the forum!

My best guess is that the wine fully visually cleared over night.

I've never bulk aged more than 3 months for a 6 week kit and have had no sediment issues so long as i racked to a bucket and bottled from there.

BTW, I admire your courage/confidence. I spent over a year or more making just kits before having the confidence to try making DB. Now with maybe 10 batches of various fruit wines under my belt its no big deal.

 

[Rmarsh]

Thanks for all the replies, great group of people here! I've been lurking on this forum for a few weeks now and I've been trying to absorb as much as possible, reading up on the kit wine troubleshooting to learn from other member's trials and tribulations.

Bkisel, I'm fighting the urge to make multiple batches before I have one solid end result, but it's difficult, there are so many avenues I want to explore! Side note- are you in aviation?

The wine may have cleared without me noticing, but I still can't see fine detail on the other side of the carboy, so I think I just need patience- it's still early days for this batch

I'll post a picture later tonight and hopefully that will shed some light on the issue, pun intended...

 

[bkisel]

Thanks for all the replies, great group of people here! I've been lurking on this forum for a few weeks now and I've been trying to absorb as much as possible, reading up on the kit wine troubleshooting to learn from other member's trials and tribulations.

Bkisel, I'm fighting the urge to make multiple batches before I have one solid end result, but it's difficult, there are so many avenues I want to explore! Side note- are you in aviation?

The wine may have cleared without me noticing, but I still can't see fine detail on the other side of the carboy, so I think I just need patience- it's still early days for this batch

I'll post a picture later tonight and hopefully that will shed some light on the issue, pun intended...

Yes, in the late 50s and early 60s I was involved in aviation. I graduated from Aviation HS in NYC. I spent most of my time in the Marine Corps (Aug. 1962 to Oct. 1966) attached to Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 542 from its formation as an F4 Phantom squadron @ Marine Corps Air Station El Toro, to its deployment to DaNang Vietnam, to just prior to its reformation in Iwakuni Japan. I was a Fire Control Technician (radar, Sparrow and Sidewinder missiles).

 

[jgmann67]

Thanks for all the replies, great group of people here! I've been lurking on this forum for a few weeks now and I've been trying to absorb as much as possible, reading up on the kit wine troubleshooting to learn from other member's trials and tribulations.

Bkisel, I'm fighting the urge to make multiple batches before I have one solid end result, but it's difficult, there are so many avenues I want to explore!

Then you should explore away. Take the road less traveled and it will make all the difference... I jumped in with both feet. Shortly after my first kit hit the clearing stage, I started kit #2. Less than a year later and I just kicked off kit #9.

For my first three kits, I went with an easy list of wines we drink with regularity - a cab, a merlot and a chard. So, my two bits, fwiw - make what you like. If it's good (and, it will be if you do it right), it's great. If it's just mediocre, well... It's still pretty good because you made it.

 

[Rmarsh]

Then you should explore away. Take the road less traveled and it will make all the difference... I jumped in with both feet. Shortly after my first kit hit the clearing stage, I started kit #2. Less than a year later and I just kicked off kit #9.

For my first three kits, I went with an easy list of wines we drink with regularity - a cab, a merlot and a chard. So, my two bits, fwiw - make what you like. If it's good (and, it will be if you do it right), it's great. If it's just mediocre, well... It's still pretty good because you made it.

Thanks for the encouragement, there are so many appeals to making your own wine, and I think your last point is what intrigues me the most! It's the same reason why I also got into the straight razor hobby (the skill involved, the self-reliance aspect, the technical attention to detail, the DIY satisfaction, all of which seem to be present in this hobby also). My absolute favorite wines to drink are big Napa Cabs, but I'm hesitant to try a kit version so early on, in case it doesn't live up. I think I will be more forgiving of my efforts if I make a fruit wine or something that isn't commercially available to compare to

Now to the wine- this isn't clear, but it IS clearing...is that a fair assessment?

 

[jgmann67]

Yep. That's about right. Keep your wine still, away from direct sunlight, in constant temps and make sure your airlock has liquid in it.

If I understand where you are in the process, you'll be racking this at the end of the week. From there, it will continue to clear and brighten with time. You'll want to top up with a similar wine during aging. Every time you look at it, though, say to yourself, "I can wait."

Something to remember - time is both a blessing and a burden. It will clear the wine for you... You just need to wait. It will also mature your wine into something you'd enjoy drinking with friends... You just have to wait. The sooner you get started, the less you have to wait.

I enjoy the big reds as well. We did the RJS Winery Series Australian Cab first. Almost a year later, and it's drinking pretty well (another 3-6 months should just about do it). And, I've got the Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cab in clearing right now - which I won't be able to enjoy for another year to year and a half. That's okay - I've got other wine for the time between now and then. I can wait.

If your goal is similar to mine - gradually learn how to make a quality wine from fresh grapes and juice - you'll need some experience. To me, kits were a great way to get that experience. The math is pretty simple: Experience = time x trial. So... Get busy. I'm planning my first grapes-to-wine effort this fall. There's no compressed time schedule as with kits. Once it's clear, it will be a couple years till it's ready. That's okay... I can wait.

Some people buy lower end kits first because they mature faster. It gives them something to drink while waiting for their higher end kits to mature. Unfortunately, I'm a bit of a snob. I buy the highest end kits I can afford (and thanks to this site's sponsors, that means the top of the line). They don't drink as early. But, that's okay...

These are the three hardest words for a new wine maker to say. But, it gets easier with time and trial.

I can wait.

 

[Johnd]

Now to the wine- this isn't clear, but it IS clearing...is that a fair assessment?

Your wine is definitely clearing, it looks like the heaviest lees have settled out, they normally do quite quickly. I suspect when you do your next racking, you will notice that as the wine siphons into the target carboy, you'll see some additional CO2 being released. The sooner the CO2 is gone, the sooner your wine will become that "crystal clear" wine you are looking for.

Not to worry, if there's a little left, the racking will help a lot, and time will take care of the rest. Just try not to be in too much of a hurry to bottle so you don't end up bottling slightly fizzy wine.

 

[wineh]

. My absolute favorite wines to drink are big Napa Cabs, but I'm hesitant to try a kit version so early on, in case it doesn't live up.

Now to the wine- this isn't clear, but it IS clearing...is that a fair assessment?

WinExpert's Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Sauvignon is considered to be quite good by many. It needs at least a year (some will say 2) to become worthy, but mine have stood up well against some good commercial wines.

And yes, that is a fair assessment.

 

[Rmarsh]

WinExpert's Eclipse Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Sauvignon is considered to be quite good by many. It needs at least a year (some will say 2) to become worthy, but mine have stood up well against some good commercial wines.

And yes, that is a fair assessment.

I have no doubt that the higher quality Cab Sav kits will produce wine that can compare to the best bottles at the local store- that said, I'm sure I won't do those kits justice for a while. All I know at this point is that I am capable of producing something in between prison toilet wine and the finest white Bordeaux.... Time will tell

 

[Johnd]

I have no doubt that the higher quality Cab Sav kits will produce wine that can compare to the best bottles at the local store- that said, I'm sure I won't do those kits justice for a while. All I know at this point is that I am capable of producing something in between prison toilet wine and the finest white Bordeaux.... Time will tell

Quite the contrary!! If you are able to follow along with the instructions and guidelines given in them, you can certainly produce the Lodi Cab, (or just about any other kit for that matter) and it will be quite good without changing a thing. If you have little patience and can allow it to just sit around in a carboy for longer than the instructions, even better!!

 

[Rmarsh]

I'm quickly finding out, the more I read specifically in the kit wine subforum, that most people who make a lot of kits go off of their own timeline rather than sticking to the manufacturer's, and that gives me confidence that a few days (or weeks) difference from the instructions doesn't mean a failed attempt, usually the contrary.

 

[Johnd]

I'm quickly finding out, the more I read specifically in the kit wine subforum, that most people who make a lot of kits go off of their own timeline rather than sticking to the manufacturer's, and that gives me confidence that a few days (or weeks) difference from the instructions doesn't mean a failed attempt, usually the contrary.

And you would be very correct, those times are guidelines and affected a lot by temperatures. Time shouldn't be your sole guide until fermentation is complete and your wine is stable.

In fact, the vast majority of decisions about when to move wine are made solely by the readings on your hydrometer. I've had wines go completely dry in the bucket in 4 days before I even checked them, some sit in there a week or longer. Measure SG when you start, move to glass around 1.000, rack, degas and add chems when it stops and is below the .996 / .998 range.

Once it's in glass, cleared and protected from spoilage, time DOES MATTER for most wines. Time is your wine's clarity, its quality, and your palate's best friend.

 

[Floandgary]

I'm quickly finding out, the more I read specifically in the kit wine subforum, that most people who make a lot of kits go off of their own timeline rather than sticking to the manufacturer's, and that gives me confidence that a few days (or weeks) difference from the instructions doesn't mean a failed attempt, usually the contrary.

Good observation! Winemaking is the same worldwide. Ferment-clear-age-drink! All the little add-ons don't change the process. Enjoy and keep it up!

 

[Rmarsh]

One other question, referencing the pic I posted- is headspace an issue at this stage? Should I top-off?

 

[Johnd]

One other question, referencing the pic I posted- is headspace an issue at this stage? Should I top-off?

Despite some kit instructions, once fermentation is done, wine is racked, and chems added, I ALWAYS top up at that point. It's fine to follow instructions, this is just my way.

Why? I figure, once there's no co2 being generated, my wine is susceptible to O2 exposure, so why wait until the next rack off of lees to top up? I top up at that point and forevermore until it's bottled. Thief a sample to taste, top up. Thief a sample for testing, top up. You get the picture.

 

[Rmarsh]

So here is the progress, looks almost cleared! I was wondering if had degassed it enough but it looks like I have. I also topped up with 2 bottles of decent NZ sauv. Blanc, but even with that it only increased the volume to just above the shoulder, should I add more or call it good? Seems odd to me to top up with a wine I didn't make but maybe I'm overthinking it...