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sjo

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I have a huge problem with my grape jelly wine that needs to be fixed soon so I can add yeast.

I am making a six gallon batch.
Using 18 lbs of Concord grape jelly.
Tuesday night I mixed up the batch measured SG at 1.065. Added 3.5 lbs of sugar which should have brought it up to 1.09 It only brought it to 1.088. I added another 1.3 lbs of sugar and measured at 1.092. (that is where I was looking to be) I did disolve the sugar in almost boiling water so that should not have been an isue.
Last night I was going to add yeast, I rechecked sg and it was at 1.112 (16% alc). Why would this have gone up that high.
The jelly has 8 grams sugar per tbs. Total sugar for all 18 lbs is 3240 grams or 7.14 lbs. I added 4.8 lbs for a total of 11.94 lbs. That amount of sugar should give an sg of 1.079. What am I doing wrong? My hydrometer reads 1.00 in water so it appears to be accurate.

Thanks
Scott
 
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cpfan

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The 1.012 looks to be a type. Should it read 1.102?

I'm guessing that you did not stir well enough and the must was layered, and the reading was taken from a less sugary portion.

Steve
 

sjo

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Yes a typo. It is 1.112
I thought I stirred it pretty good, however even if it wasn't stirred well the totals don't figure correctly.(total sugar in the jelly and what I added is just shy of 12 lbs) It took a lot of stirring and time to get the jelly dissolved.
Scott
 
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Tom

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I would have started with very hot water. jelly by nature dont want to dissolve. Did you stir with the degasser?
 

sjo

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Tom, I was going to use hot water but decided to follow the posted recipie which said to use cool water. But the issue is according to the sugar amount listed on the nutrition label and what I added I should be at 1.092. To be at the SG I am at the sugar in the jelly would have to be twice what is listed. Are these labels that inaccurate? If sg is indeed that high i see my only option is to water it down with approx 2 gallons of water.
 

Wade E

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Im old fashioned in the way I dont measure out what a sugar weighs and what it will add, I dissolve al sugars and use my hydrometer to get whetre I need. Never add sugar undissolved. I hope someone more mathmatically enabled can help you as with what happened here.
 

sjo

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Here's another question, not quite sure how to word it.
2 lbs of jelly is 32 oz.
2 lbs of jelly has 360 grams of sugar
If I dilute this jelly in 1 gallon of water I should get an sg of 1.033 based on the sugar I am using.
Would watever gives the jelly it's consistency be giving me a higher than expected reading with the hydrometer?

As I 'm sitting here typing this I figured I would try it on another jar of jelly. I dissolved 1 jar in 1 gallon and got an sg of 1.051 .
My conclusion is the hydrometer reading is not correct with jelly and I need to use calculated amounts of sugar and hope this isn't rocket fuel.
Scott
 

Tom

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Recipes are a "guide" for that day they made it.
Like what wade said ADD dissolved sugar to what the hydrometer says not according to the recipe. When I give recipe I say sugar to... NOT 5#. There is a program called WineCalc GOOGLE it and download. al you need to do is enter SG and where you want it and tells you how much sugar to add.
 

Tom

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SJO,
I would ALWAYS go by the hydrometer. Each year from every "grower" you will get different sugar levels. Think about for a minute. If a certain vineyard had a GOLD 90+point wine the next year they may not. Why,, because of amt of rain , eat etc.. this goes with fruit as well. If you get a # of strawberries in LA and a # in NY I bet the brix are different.
This is why I always go by the hydrometer.
 

sjo

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Tom,
I am using wine calc. according to wine calc I need 18 lbs of sugar to get to where I am. I have a used a total of 11.8 lbs including the sugar in the jelly. That is why I think the jelly consistency is throwing me off.
I do understand the variation in sugar amounts in fruit from year to year but the jelly should be what it says.
Thanks
Scott
 

arcticsid

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I am wondering if there are other things in the jelly that would make the hydrometer float incorrectly, pectins, stabilizaers etc.

I am curious to see what conclusions are came up with. This sounds like a question for LUC, hopefully he'll seee this thread and chime in.
 
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sounds to me like there was sugar not yet dissolved in the water from the jelly. that or the jelly itself somehow became dissovled in the water over time. i typically sweeten to just under 1.080 at first and add more right before adding yeast to bring it up. this way the sugar/starches in the fruit have more of a chance of mixing into the wine. it's not as necessary with juices though.
 

arcticsid

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I always read it again before pitching the yeast. I have never had to deal with things that may have made the reading different during that "wait" period before the yeast goes in.

There is another thread going around, where the poster said the same thing, the hydrometer said "x", and the next day it increased.

I am interested to see what the conclusion on this is.

Troy
 

VineRipe

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Here's another question, not quite sure how to word it.
2 lbs of jelly is 32 oz.
2 lbs of jelly has 360 grams of sugar
If I dilute this jelly in 1 gallon of water I should get an sg of 1.033 based on the sugar I am using.
Would watever gives the jelly it's consistency be giving me a higher than expected reading with the hydrometer?

As I 'm sitting here typing this I figured I would try it on another jar of jelly. I dissolved 1 jar in 1 gallon and got an sg of 1.051 .
My conclusion is the hydrometer reading is not correct with jelly and I need to use calculated amounts of sugar and hope this isn't rocket fuel.
Scott
sjo, you just really stirred up my curiosity to the fever pitch on this question. The main reason for that being that under "sugars" on the required nutrition label on foods, "sugars" can and do include high fructose corn syrup. From the reading I've done in the past half hour, I know for a fact that the body breaks down high fructose corn syrup in an entirely different (and not efficient at all) way.

Honey contains many simple and complex sugars that closely parallel the profile of high fructose corn syrup, and due to the lower cost of high fructose corn syrup, a lot of commercial honeys were being adulterated in order to stretch them and lower costs and keep prices up. They no longer test for sugar to try to identify adulterated honey, since they are chemically so close together. Instead, they test for minute quantities of proteins contained in high fructose corn syrup that is not contained in honey.

Being a complete noob to wine making, I have no idea about how high fructose corn syrup vs. corn syrup vs. cane or beet sugar would effect the SG of a wine, nor the finished product.

You have piqued my interest though.
 

St Allie

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Scott?..

I hear what you are saying.. what is the gelling agent for the jelly?

on the label?

does it say pectin?.. arrowroot?... gelatin?

if arrowroot or gelatine, that may affect the way the hydrometer floats? Is that what you mean? because of the increased viscosity?

out of curiosity.. and just a suggestion.. What about taking some of the must and boiling it.. let it cool and retake the SG reading.. see whether reboiling now it's diluted.. affects the SG reading? I've a feeling it will break the chemical chains on the gelling effect and change the reading.. worth a try?

Allie
 
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