Pinot Rose' Pyment

[seth8530]

Racked the pinot mead at 1.002 and added 5 grams of opti malo plus nutrient and the proper amount of MBR 31 bacteria. Also! Pictures are included of the wine hoard!

 

[SouthernChemist]

Very nice! I have to admit that I am jealous of your wine hoard. Looks like the color turned out nice on the pyment, as well. Never thought about doing MLF on a mead before.

 

[seth8530]

Ha, I am kind of jealous of it myself lol, one thing to take into consideration is that this here is my total wine supply that is not in bottle.. However, all but the strawberry, and two of the meads were made this fall.

I think the colour on the pyment is turning out quite well myself ;however, we will be able to get a better idea how its going to look once the sediment starts dropping out... That should be fun. I nearly consider MLF to be a necissity on anything fermented with grapes from a stabilization point of view.. Plus, I really like a little bit of a buttery taste in some of my wines. I am really excited to see how these guys will end up turning out.

I managed to get a sip from the pinot noir and I can say I am quite pleased, it shows every indication that it will turn out to be quite the respectable little wine.

 

[seth8530]

The colour is almost a light phenolphthalein fuchsia colour. The oak started to become the main flavour so we racked it off the oak. The honey does not seem to come through very much at all which surprises me to a rather large degree. However, I have never had a second running made with just sugar so I can not quite compare it. Still kind of hot tasting, and the after taste is watery. When the time comes I will need to adjust the acid on this one.

The gravity has managed to make its way down to .994 so it looks like I hit my ABV target after all!

 

[seth8530]

Just a small update, added 3 grams per gallon of uva tan (grape skin tannin) per each 6 gallon carboy of pinot meado rose. We also added 80 grams of tartaric acid to each of the roses since the TA was reading 3 g/l. We are hoping that this will bring us to around 6.5 grams/liter TA. I am trying to create a rather unique wine here. Borrowing a lot of the body and character from pinot noir and grapes whenever possible but also being mead like and delicate.

I am hoping that these additions will make it taste a little less watery.

 

[Deezil]

I've wanted to try this sort of technique on other flavors; I'm curious to see what you find with MLFing the acidity down and then re-adjusting back up with tartaric..

The flavor that comes to mind, for me, is the Apple-Pear Bochet; were it MLF'd and then tartaric-balanced, I wonder if you could get both the body from the MLF and not lose a bright-apple flavor

Interested also in seeing what this latest addition does to that 'watery' sensation, because I've found that on a few flavors as well.

Thanks for the update

 

[seth8530]

Yeah, it should be interesting. The reason why I used a tartaric addition was because I used second running grapes to make the rose so I figured what they really needed was some more grape. I used the same logic for adding the grape skin tannins.

As far as adding back acid that is taken away from MLF I feel like it could be worth doing especially if you are mainly after the flavours created my MLF and not so much after the acid reduction. In the case of an apple botchet however, I would be tempted to add back malic acid since that is the primary apple acid. I am not quite sure why but I have heard artificial malic acid additions will not feed ML bacteria. I say it would be a very fun technique to experiment around with.

The watery sensation has subsided a bit, but it is still very much there. I agree that it will be quite interesting to see how that changes after the tannins and acid have some time to integrate. As far as I know most Roses wines are dry so I would rather not have to balance the lack of body with residual honey additions.

However, this wine is already a bastard wine so maybe trying to adhere to any preconceived notions of style might be moot...

 

[SouthernChemist]

I wouldn't be afraid to sweeten it just a little. Rose style wines can be anywhere from sweet to dry, but my experience has been that it is really dependent on the quality of the grapes used. I've had some dry rose wines that were fantastic (the Tavel AOC in France only makes rose wines from Grenache, Syrah, Cinsault, and Mourvedre). I've also had some that had no reason being dry and just screamed for at least a little sweetness (a rose from Cabernet Sauvignon...which sounded a lot nicer than it tasted). Some rose wines are just byproducts of winemakers trying to make more concentrated red wines.

I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if a little honey or sugar addition wouldn't improve things a little.

Do you have a recent picture of this wine?

 

[seth8530]

Hmm, that sounds like some good advice. I will post some pictures the next time I rack the wine... But its got this kind of cool pinkish fushia colour going on.

 

[byathread]

As a lover of dry and off-dry roses (particularly those from Provence and Spain), I've enjoyed reading about this adventurous brew. If you decide to do another rose (or rose mead) this fall, you might consider using the saignee method, where you siphon off 10-30% of your red must after a short contact time on the skins (typically 12-24 hrs) for your rose and leave the remaining must "bulked up" with extra skins. Some would think new oak undesirable in a rose as it may mask some of the fruitiness. Also, ScottLabs makes several products that may be of use for making roses such as Opti-White, Booster Blanc and Tannin Blanc Soft.

I'm interested to see how your "recycled" Pinot Rose mead works out!

 

[seth8530]

That would not be a horrible idea for making a rose. I am not sure if my temperature control space would allow for it, but it is definitely an idea. Indeed, I have began making use of the products you have mentioned. I believe that booster rouge was an excellent addition to my cranberry mead.

 

[SouthernChemist]

That would not be a horrible idea for making a rose. I am not sure if my temperature control space would allow for it, but it is definitely an idea. Indeed, I have began making use of the products you have mentioned. I believe that booster rouge was an excellent addition to my cranberry mead.

The sanguee method would be something worth experimenting with if you have the time/grapes. I'm by no means an expert, but I wonder how many people out there are applying rose-making techniques to pyments.

And booster rouge/blanc are good products to use!

 

[byathread]

And booster rouge/blanc are good products to use!

I used booster blanc, tannin blanc soft (formerly tannin galalcool) and opti-white for several years in my meads and ciders, and more recently booster rouge/blanc in my kit wines to great success. I've had nothing but good experience with Scott Labs products.

 

[Hunt]

I'm gonna show just how new I am with this question but what is a rose. And don't go telling me it's a flower lol.

 

[sour_grapes]

I'm gonna show just how new I am with this question but what is a rose. And don't go telling me it's a flower lol.

Generally, we mean a rosé wine, but doing the accent on the "e" is a pain. This is a wine with some of the red color from the skins of the grapes, but not as much of it as a full-blooded red wine. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosé

A better question for this thread would have been "what is a Pyment?"

 

[Hunt]

Ok I understand. Do you use wine grapes or what. I want to learn things so I can be a grown up Wine maker like you all

 

[seth8530]

Ha, well their is only one place to start... Typically when making a pyment you want to use wine grapes or at the very least some good quality juice depnding on what you are after and what you want to showcase.

 

[Hunt]

What is a pymemt

 

[seth8530]

What is a pymemt

"A better question for this thread would have been "what is a Pyment?""

check out sourgrapes post and click on pyment in his post. It will link you to the definition along with some nice traits.

 

[SouthernChemist]

What is a pymemt

A pyment is a mead made with grapes (either red or white) added. Much like a cyser is a mead made with apple juice or a melomel is a mead made with fruit. That's one thing about making mead - honey is very compatible with other things. Wine grapes would be the most appropriate, though there's nothing to stop you from using other grapes. I've personally never had a pyment or met someone who has made one, which is why this thread has been interesting to follow!

And another way to think of a rose style wine is that it is basically a white wine from red grapes. Some can be so light in color you might mistake them for a white.

I do like the idea of bleeding off some juice from Pinot Noir grapes and using that for a second pyment. It definitely would make for a more concentrated Pinot wine, too.