Pinot Rose' Pyment

[seth8530]

Howdy all, this is almost an offshoot of my thread on my grape wine project that should be getting initiated in a few weeks. (might need to get scaled back due to a stolen car)



What I plan on doing is taking my pressed pinot noir skins and putting that ontop of 5 gallons of water, nutrient, carrot blossom honey mix at around 23 brix. No yeast will be needed because those skins are bound to be loaded with yeast in them.

I plan on using carrot blossom because on my medowfoam carrot blossom mead it has given it an amazing smell.

Anyways, does anyone have any advice and recommendations on making a rose mead? Has anyone here ever made a "normal rose"?

 

[robie]

I have made a regular rose from Zinfandel grapes. Come to find out, the grapes were loaded with methoxy pyrazine, so the rose ended up good for nothing as was the whole batch of grapes from which it was extracted.

Your experiment should yield a lite rose because of the Pinot Noir skins. The skins should be loaded with yeast as long as they are fresh or have been kept frozen.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[SouthernChemist]

Out of curiosity, how many pounds of pressed grapes do you think you'll have for this? What strain of yeast will you be using for the grape wine? It sounds like it would be an interesting mead/pyment, especially with the carrot blossom honey.

 

[fatbloke]

I'd just use the grape skins in grape juice Seth, not water.

Then bring the gravity up to whatever you want with honey.....

 

[seth8530]

I have made a regular rose from Zinfandel grapes. Come to find out, the grapes were loaded with methoxy pyrazine, so the rose ended up good for nothing as was the whole batch of grapes from which it was extracted.

Your experiment should yield a lite rose because of the Pinot Noir skins. The skins should be loaded with yeast as long as they are fresh or have been kept frozen.

Let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for the input, btw can you explain the methoxy pyrazin issue? The skins will be coming fresh out of my pinot noir so they should be pretty wild with them yeastie beasties. BTW, why do you think it will be on the lighter side? ( My first time working with skins)

Out of curiosity, how many pounds of pressed grapes do you think you'll have for this? What strain of yeast will you be using for the grape wine? It sounds like it would be an interesting mead/pyment, especially with the carrot blossom honey.

I should have anywhere between 50-100lbs of pinot skins depending on how many gallons of pinot noir I actually end up making. I plan on doing 12 gallons but this could change depending on the actual cost of the grapes. Also, it could be less if it ends up costing way too much to ship refrigerated grapes and I use frozen must instead which have less skins on them.

Do you have any experience with carrot blossom? The only time I have used it I really loved the aroma on it.

Yeast:

Enoferm AMH.

Quote:
Originating from the Geisenheim Research Institute, Enoferm AMH™ is a favorite for making Riesling, Pinot
noir and Zinfandel. It is considered a color-friendly yeast that enhances spicy (clove, nutmeg) and fruit flavors
and aromas while adding positive, smooth mouthfeel to the overall complexity. AMH™ has a long lag phase
and a slow to medium fermentation rate. Therefore, a well-managed nutrient program during rehydration and
fermentation is essential. Good ferment domination is obtained with AMH™ if the culture is allowed to develop
in about 10% of the total must volume for 8 hours before final inoculation. Very malolactic bacteria compatible.
It is cassified as a Saccharomyces kudriavzevii

I'd just use the grape skins in grape juice Seth, not water.

Then bring the gravity up to whatever you want with honey.....

Well, two issues exist against that in my particular case. Number one is that i will be using the grape juice from the skins to make pinot noir and chard with. The second being I want this to be more about the honey and less about the grape from a total fermentables perspective.

However, I will admit I have never made a pyment before... I am kind of going for something that is like... " Hey this is a mead, but its sorta like a rose!" kind of deal.

BTW, have you had the opportunity to make some pyments before? Just wondering because they tend to be a little less popular than some other meads in the mazing community.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I have never seen carrot blossom honey before, but I'm always interested in the subtle differences that can exist in honey from different sources. I've also never made a pyment before, either, but I would think you would want a honey that would allow the grape aspect of things to shine through a little bit. Sort of how people make cysers with lighter, softer honey so the apple flavors are not drowned out. I would expect that the skins will add something beyond a little color. Either way, it should be interesting to see how it turns out

 

[seth8530]

Their is certainly more than one way to do it and honey choice has everything to do with what you are going for. I am more after a honey forward and aroma centered mead that is more accented by the grape. So, that is what I am shooting for..

If you want to get an idea of the differences between types try a meadowfoam and a buckwheat or perhaps a carrot blossom. I was certinly amazed in the flavour diferecnes..

These guys have a sample pack they sell... Really great outfit btw!

http://www.flyingbeeranch.net/

 

[SouthernChemist]

Definitely sounds interesting. Speaking of other kinds of honey...my father has gotten into keeping honey bees at our family's farm in the past year, and he's just about ready to harvest his first real batch of honey from the bees. It's not single source honey, but it will be interesting to see how the honey turns out.

 

[seth8530]

Just ordered 36 lbs of white sage honey. I have never tasted this type of honey before, hopefully it will turn out alright.

 

[seth8530]

Well, I got the honey in the mail today and it is amazing. Very interesting smell that is hard to describe, but this honey is a winner. If any of yall have a chance to try White Sage honey I highly recommend it.

 

[seth8530]

The time is nearing for this guys birth... The chardonnay is almost done fermenting. Once that is complete I will make around 12 gallons of honey water mixture at around 1.090. Then, I will add in around 6 gallons of my bagged and frozen pinot noir skins. Once it heats up the yeast left on the skins should get this show started pretty quick. I will do a nutrient schedule assuming initial YAN is at 30 mg/l. and I will aim for 320 mg/l

 

[seth8530]

Alright, starting the ferment tonight.

PLAN!!

Add 14.5 Kg of honey into 12 gallons of water and shoot for a gravity of around 1.095.

Add 14.7 grams of go ferm straight into the must to provide vitamens which Fermaid O will not provide ( this is the dosing used to re hydrate yeast)

Add the 150 mg/l YAN ( DAP equiv) via fermaid O Ie 142 grams of fermaid O into the 12 gallons. This assumes that fermaid O is 33% more efficient than DAP

Add in as many pinot noir skins into the must as I possibly can via grape stockings.. Hopefully all of them

Nutrient Schedule

1.081 Add 23 grams Fermaid O

1.067 Add 23 grams Fermaid O

1.053 Add 23 grams Fermaid O

1.039 Add 23 grams Fermaid O

1.025 Add 23 grams Fermaid O

Other additives

At onset of fermentation add in 24.5 grams of opti white ie .5g/L


Opti-White® is a specific inactivated yeast with high antioxidant properties. Its application in white wines is
patent pending. Using Opti-White® on the juice at the beginning of fermentation results in smoothness and
greater aromatic complexity in white wines. As its unique properties protect against oxidation of phenols and
aromas, Opti-White® contributes to better color preservation and the aromatic freshness of white wines. Yeast
cell wall components from Opti-White® will be solubilized during fermentation and aging. These polysaccharides
will have a very positive impact, bringing more roundness and smoothness to the wine. Their action will
enhance the benefits of autolysis following alcoholic fermentation.
Dosage recommendations: Add Opti-White® to the juice at 30-50 g/hL (2.4-4 lb/1000 gal) for smoothness,
antioxidative color protection and aromatic freshness. Add Opti-White® towards the end of fermentation at
20-30 g/hL (1.6-2.4 lb/1000 gal) for smoothness and better integration of wood and alcohol.

At 1.025 add in .3g/L booster rouge ie 14.7 grams

Booster Rouge® originates from a specific natural wine yeast isolated and selected by the ICV. The yeast
macromolecules in Booster Rouge® interact with red wine polyphenols resulting in a positive influence on the
colloidal balance of the wine. Especially when used in red must sourced from hot climates, Booster Rouge®
wines are perceived as having higher fore-mouth volume and smoother mid-palate tannic intensity, as well
as fresher aromatic sensations.
Booster Rouge® compliments short maceration premium reds fermented with Lalvin ICV GRE™ for smooth
mid-palate intensity and fresh varietal aromas, while avoiding sensations of aggressive and drying tannins.
In ultra-premium reds from balanced ripe mature grapes, Booster Rouge® shows good synergy with Lalvin ICV
D80® and Lalvin ICV D21™ for enhancing licorice aromas and smooth mid-palate intensity. Booster Rouge®
may also be added towards the end of fermentation to contribute fore-mouth volume, smoother mid-palate
tannin intensity and help with alcohol integration.
Dosage recommendation: Add Booster Rouge® to the must at 227 g/ton (0.5 lb/ton) or 30 g/hL (2.4
lb/1000 gal) towards the end of fermentation.

Oak

around 6 ounces of french oak spirals Med+

 

[seth8530]

Just got this bad boy started, SG corrected for temperature is 1.086. I expect that the gravity will creep up a little bit by tomorrow morning however, since I was aiming for 1.090 I consider myself close enough to my mark. Got the initial fermaid/ go ferm boost added to the must along with optiwhite. I will wait on the oak untill secondary. The white sage honey smells and taste a lot like chocolate. The pinot noir skins themselves smell a lot like chocolate. I expect this shall be an interesting batch. I managed to get all but 3 of my gallon bags of skins in.. So I am estimating that their is somewhere between 5 and 6 gallons of skins in their inside of fermentation bags along with 13 ish gallons of honey water mixture.

Hopefully this guy will not overflow.

 

[Deezil]

It'll be exciting to see how this one turns out

Why the go-ferm in the batch, instead of per-instructions?
Just because honey lacks in nutrients?

 

[seth8530]

Yeah, I am pretty excited too. I am afraid I will need to throw away all pretenses of this batch turning out like a rose' but oh well.

I used the go-ferm in the batch to add nutrient that the fermaid O lacks. I would of used it during rehydration but my skins are already so laden with yeast I figured it would be pointless to try and compete with that. If I knew exactly what was in the go-ferm and how much I could add to the batch and still be safe I would actually consider using it as a nutrient supplement for fermaid O. However, if I had been using fermaid K I would not of bothered, but I figured since I would try and do this in the spirit of an all ammino nitrogen batch.

I have the whole batch temperature controlled to 55 degrees F so I think this might be a fun one!

 

[seth8530]

Decided this morning to add in an extra quart of honey since the gravity was reading 1.080 at calibration temp. Fermentation does not look like it is on going so I believe it is safe to assume the gravity was reading true. I estimate my volume to be somewhere between 49 and 55 L meaning the addition will add around 5-7 points to gravity.

Thus adjust starting gravity is now 1.085 or 1.087. I am hoping hard for a fermentation all the way down to .992

 

[SouthernChemist]

You should take a picture for us!

 

[seth8530]

Alright pictures via popular demand!! But first an update! Mead gravity is currently at 1.086 which is quite close to what I predicted. There was a bit of residual honey left on the bottom but I took care of that ( Photo included). It smells and taste like straight up chocolate. I feel like the white sage in combo with the pinot noir is really playing that out a lot.

I also added in 2 medium French wine sticks into the must. Still no major signs of fermentatoin. I bumped the temp up to 58F to help facilitate fermentation.

 

[WI_Wino]

Is that an elliptical shaped bucket? Or did you bend it to make it fit?

 

[seth8530]

It was a round 20 gallon bucket that I forced into the freezer thus forcing the shape to become elliptical. Right now it can hold a little bit over 15 gallons because I had to squish the bucket to make it fit.