Cellar Craft Okay, on my knees

[Sudz]

Here's the deal. I've been making wine for about five years now. And beer for about six. Great beers, even awards. Very good white wines... every one. Can't make a red to save my arse. Seriously. The only exception was a Zinfandel I made from hand picked grapes one time at the beginning. Did everything wrong I think but the wine was great.

I went to kits simply because grapes are hard to come by around here.

As I said, the whites have been good and some very good. No issues at all. Never a bad batch.

All the reds have a common off taste. Kind of a pruny, astringent, rusty taste. It varies between wines and styles but it's always there. it keeps anything from being enjoyable. It's the same taste in every red I make. Never present in any white wine. It actually makes all reds taste somewhat the same... not a good "same" I might add. Some have been so strong on this taste that I just pour them out after a year or so. This characteristic does seem to fade with time but it never goes away. I have some reds that are three years old, but it's still there. These wines are clear, vibrant, and spot on with color and clarity. They just don't taste very good which is highly disturbing.

I make mostly Cellar Craft kits but have tried several others. Kit mfg doesn't seem to make a difference.

I'm at a loss as to what this could be. I haven't any way of sampling others efforts so I don't know if this is just my skills or possibly I'm just sensitive to what some have said is a "kit" taste.

Any suggestions folks?

I'm on the verge of hanging it up since the effort involved simply isn't justified by the poor results.

 

[vernsgal]

Oxidization can cause a rusty metallic taste. When doing your wines how long to you have them sit before bottling? Are you topping up your carboys?

 

[Pumpkinman]

I'll put my bet on Kit taste, it is the common denominator.

 

[vernsgal]

I'll put my bet on Kit taste, it is the common denominator.

I have to disagree with you on that one Tom. Cheap end maybe, but I have had some incredible wine that came from kits.

My bet is still on oxidization .

 

[Runningwolf]

If it was oxidation on every red kit, it would be due to bad habits. It would be far more pronounced in whites, which has none. I rule out oxidation. Are these red kits the big expensive ones or middle of the road. We have heard there is a big difference in quality between red kits. Are you using oak in every red kit, are you tasting that? Maybe instead of throwing them out after a year you should be tasting them again after two years.

 

[vernsgal]

I went to kits simply because grapes are hard to come by around here.

As I said, the whites have been good and some very good. No issues at all. Never a bad batch.

All the reds have a common off taste. Kind of a pruny, astringent, rusty taste. It varies between wines and styles but it's always there. it keeps anything from being enjoyable. It's the same taste in every red I make. Never present in any white wine. It actually makes all reds taste somewhat the same... not a good "same" I might add. Some have been so strong on this taste that I just pour them out after a year or so. This characteristic does seem to fade with time but it never goes away. I have some reds that are three years old, but it's still there.

I'm at a loss as to what this could be. I haven't any way of sampling others efforts so I don't know if this is just my skills or possibly I'm just sensitive to what some have said is a "kit" taste.

Any suggestions folks?

I'm on the verge of hanging it up since the effort involved simply isn't justified by the poor results.

Dan,he did say he's had some for upwards of 3 years so it can't be age. I don't understand the taste of rust in it though. The astringency you can get from drinking too young a wine. You said you're making white wine from kits that are good so for them to be working and not the reds ,and if they're clear, color is good and you followed all directions on the kits maybe it is just not a taste for you as Tom said.
Wine tastes are different for everyone.I found on this site that many have different tastes to wine.Some drink it early while others don't. Some call DB wine while some say it's more a cooler and some just don't like the taste of kits.
Sorry I couldn't help. You say grapes are hard to come by in your area. Have you thought of trying a different fruit wine?

 

[dangerdave]

Ok, Sudz, I have only one question to help resolve this problem.

Do commercial reds have the same kind of off-taste to you?

 

[Pumpkinman]

Good Point Dave, very good question!
Out of all the Kit wines that I've tasted, even the ones that I've made, there was only one that I couldn't detect that it was a kit, I cannot really explain it, it isn't the sorbate, I didn't add any to the kits that I made, but it is a very distinctive taste.

 

[MrKevin]

Suds
Is the yeast the same in all the kits? I had noticed a similar taste in my reds until I started replacing the supplied yeast.

 

[wineh]

This might sound like a stretch at first, but what about water? If you are using tap water, is it possible that its having a reaction to reds only because of more grape solids? Maybe try RO or bottled spring water?

 

[sour_grapes]

Is the yeast the same in all the kits? I had noticed a similar taste in my reds until I started pitching the supplied yeast.

Mr. Kevin, which way do you mean "pitching"? Do you meant you now throw away the supplied yeast, and substitute your own, or do you mean that you now sprinkle (i.e., use) the yeast that is supplied with the kit?

 

[MrKevin]

Mr. Kevin, which way do you mean "pitching"? Do you meant you now throw away the supplied yeast, and substitute your own, or do you mean that you now sprinkle (i.e., use) the yeast that is supplied with the kit?

I mean substituting a different yeast.

 

[adambaum]

Do you add the Sorbate pack? I find that for my dry reds, leaving the Sorbate out makes for a better tasting wine. I noticed that the Sorbate gives my reds an off taste.

Adam

 

[Sudz]

Oxidization can cause a rusty metallic taste. When doing your wines how long to you have them sit before bottling? Are you topping up your carboys?

True. I've been suspicious of this but am fairly confident this isn't my problem. I top up with argon, or wine and limit any exposure to air in my process. Also, the color of my reds has always been good, no hint of brown. And the same process with my whites has never been an issue with color or taste. I would expect the whites to be more affected by any oxidation issue so I'm assuming this isn't the issue.

Thanks for the input. It was a good idea.

 

[Sudz]

Ok, Sudz, I have only one question to help resolve this problem.

Do commercial reds have the same kind of off-taste to you?

Rarely do I taste this in commercial wines but I have experienced a hint in a couple of reds. But in general, no this is not an issue with wines I buy, just the ones I make unfortunately.

Most of my kits have been from the Showcase collection. However, my problem doesn't appear to be associated with a brand or level of expense of the kit involved. My cheaper wines have been thinner body and a less pronounced flavor as expected but the issue is there nonetheless.

 

[Sudz]

Suds
Is the yeast the same in all the kits? I had noticed a similar taste in my reds until I started pitching the supplied yeast.

I've always used the supplied yeast. I've noted that many of my whites use the same kit yeast so concluded the yeast isn't a factor.

Good idea however, since in beer brewing yeast can, and will make significant differences in taste profiles.

 

[Sudz]

This might sound like a stretch at first, but what about water? If you are using tap water, is it possible that its having a reaction to reds only because of more grape solids? Maybe try RO or bottled spring water?

Another good idea. However, I do not use tap water. I do use Wal-mart spring water. I even contacted Wal-Mart and with their help got a water report from the source of the local supplier. I was convinced this wasn't an issue but never totally ruled it out. I guess this could be a factor involving red solids.

I will utilize an alternate water source on my next effort just to see if a difference is observed.

Thanks....

 

[Sudz]

Do you add the Sorbate pack? I find that for my dry reds, leaving the Sorbate out makes for a better tasting wine. I noticed that the Sorbate gives my reds an off taste.

Adam

I must admit I had not considered this. Certainly something I should explore.

I guess I assumed omitting the sorbate would cause me problems later. Isn't this a key requirement for making wine to insure the biology in the bottle is stopped dead?

How do your wines hold it together over time?

Thanks...

 

[Sudz]

Many great suggestions guys. I want to thank each of you for your input and time. I'm still trying to eliminate this problem and will look closely at the suggestions for a possible fix.

If you have additional thoughts please throw them at me...

Thanks,