Ok, Almost done ! Just a bit confused...

[zember311]

Ok, I am real excited here so I will try not to pee on the carpet,

The process so far, from acquiring all the fermet buckets, jugs, hydrometers, yeasts, nutirents, airlock, concentrates, sugars, yadda yadda yadda, I think as far as PRIMARY fermentation is concerned I got that locked down.


But, it seems that making wine is not an exact science. Which is the way I like things in life, if I had to just follow a 1-2-3 step in life, there is no room for my mind to think outside the box and that takes some of the enjoyment out of it for me,


But my problem now is, Because this is not an exact science, everyone has a different way of doing things and I am a bit confused, but trying to narrow it down into my own formula by means of picking and pulling all this information and keeping what best suits my intentions.




1) Reading S.G _Is it not true that primary fermetation is complete at 1.000 ?. That is the absolute S.G for plain old tap water, so there is nothing left for the yeast to consume ... YET, it is possible to get a wine to hit .995 to .990 , I would imagine this is just yeasts still kicking a bit and once they fall off, the reason for this reading is an effect brought on by the alc in the water, making the water weight displacement lighter thenplain tap water due to the alc? I mean since our meters are pre-weighted for absolute no sugar, then you can't really float a meter in the Minus absence of sugar ?

2) To chemical, or not to chemical. Now, alot of people are into the K-meta, so on and so forth. Most of these people I have spoken to or read are into storing their bottles for EXTENED amounts of time. Where as other people I speak with are only storing their wines ( me included ) for no longer then 6 months to a year ( IF THEY LAST THAT LONG

) As long as the alc level after primary fermenting is 11 or greater. So in a nut shell, If one is keeping their alc levels greater then 11. , then there should be no need to add K-meta if the wine isn't goning to see it's 1rst birthday ?

3) The addition of stabilization. So, there is no way of stopping fermetation at any giving point until there is no sugar left correct ? If one was to stop fermetation before 1.000 they would basically have to cold rack it to temps just below 40 degrees for a few days to try and ( OFF ) the yeast with temperatures they can not tolerate. But now with that being said, if they were to bring the jug back to room temp then bottle, there could be a slight chance some of the yeast survived, causing refermenting to begin again. But If you are only racking at room temp and are already 1.000 ( or lower ) there is no possible way refermentation could possible happen, right ? UNLESS you may have sweetened your wine with sugar or such prior to bottling. ( possibly restarting ) So stablizing chemicals should'nt be needed if the racking is 100 % done fermeting. ?


4) Racking do's and dont's . Alot of people do not add any K-meta during first racking because there still is alot of CO2 in the wine, protecting it, But then I have been told that the second or 3rd, K-Meta will be added, But, if the wine is over 11 % and the racking jugs are topped off to the very top, with no chance of air oxidation ( minus the air introduced by racking ) There should be no reason for any additional chemicals at all ?

5) My reasons, I am not Against chemicals by any means if they absolutely are nessicary to making this wine. BUT I get more then enough chemicals introduced to my body when I get those darn 2 for 1 hot dog specials at the gas station

I read that K-Meta and the sodium version are just basically one is sodium, and people are trying to limit their sodium intake, and the K-Meta puts in exactly the same chemical compounds as the yeast themselves produce, just in different amounts. I am not sure though what the chemical compound of the stabilizer is though. So I have no reall issue with them if they need be..


6) My only thought , If I can make 11 and great %, Rack with as minum air induction as possible, ferment and rack in CLEAN equipment and bottle in CLEAN bottles , then only expect heck 10 monthsfor this wine to remain

then no other chemicals should be needed ?

I guess you could say , I am more of an ORGANIC winer

7) If K-meta is needed... Am I safe to say that at the end of the last racking, introduce 1 tablet per gallon, crushed disolved then stirred in the wine till my arm falls off, then bottle ?

Sorry I am so (winded ) today, just a bouncing of thoughts in the head and one cup of coffee to many

 

[hannabarn]

WOW! I can anticipate a big can of worms opening up here. If this is not an exact science, it seems you are at least succeeding in complicating it!

 

[PolishWineP]

Kyle! Breath! Feel better? Good.
You have asked some really good, well-thought questions here! Knowledge is power and you're going to be a dynamo some day! I'm not going to answer all your questions, but I will go after the lack of chemical usage in wines.
The amount of K-meta that you would use during racking and bottle is miniscule compared to what is used in food production. (Stay away from the 2fer1 deals at the gas station!)
As far as not using a stablizer, ask anyone who has had abottle explode in the cellar how they feel about that.

The small amounts of chemicals used in home wine making are enough to do the jobs assigned to them without damage to us our our wines. They protect our investment of time and hard earned money. Once you get severalwines made and age them to drinking you may easily find that you can age wines more than 6-12 months. What a sad day it would be when you find one of those bottles stashed away and open it to find it went bad.

 

[Wade E]

1) Right on the money.
2) If you are not planning on having any wine past a year then you will not need the EXTRA k-meta that we usually add for extended aging. You still want to add what came with the kit or if its not a kit the 1/4 tsp per 5-6 gallon as this is not only to protect our wine from oxidizing but to hold any bacteria at bay.
3) This subject is a little touchy as there are ways to do this but they are ify at best. You can start off with a SG that will over power you yeasts ability. You can add a distilled spirit to the batch at a certain time to make the higher abv over power the yeasts capabilities. The best way to do is to ferment dry and then sweeten back but you can cold stabilize or sterile filter if you have the means of doing that.
4) Im sure youve seen the term wine flowers somewhere in your journey in this or some other forum. This is what happens when wine is not sulfited. As careful as we are we still introduce some kind of bacteria at some stage or another as we are not working in sterile environments, this being said sooner or later without the addition of k-meta you will eventually spoil a batch of wine and I myself will do everything possible to prevent this from happening to a batch that I have spent money and so much time on and being that I will being giving some away dont want to hand over an infected bottle of sickness to someone so I urge you to do so also!
5) K-meta is better for use in wines and Na-meta (sodium) is better for sanitizing as it is stronger and CHEAPER! You are right in the fact that we just dont need anu additional sodium intake in our bodies and Na-meta also gives your wine a very slight off flavor(detectable). The amount of SO2 that your fermentation produces is not enough to protect your wine from oxidizing or even worse, bacteria!
6) In my opinion you will be risking your wine, your health, and even someone else's health by not sulfiting your wine properly.
7) 1 tablet per gallon is correct but I will tell you that buying k-meta powder is cheaper and better as the campden tablets are held together by a filler and that filler does not always break down properly unless you really do a good job and beat the sh*& out of it.

Heres a link provided by Masta about the importance of all this sulfite, please take afew minutes to check it out as he spent a good amount of time creating this for us!
Plenty of info on why K-meta is important in wine makinghere in
the PowerPoint slide show that I presented at Winestock this year:


/images/uploads/20071031_043753_pH_Acid_SO2</span>_in_.pps




If you do not have PowerPoint a viewer can be downloaded here:


http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=428D5727-43AB-4F24-90B7-A94784AF71A4&amp;displaylang=en

Edited by: wade

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

It a great outlook to want to limit the chemicals in your wine. In fact, as stated by PWP in her elegant way, we already are limiting what we use compared to commercial versions. Stabilizing with Sorbate and Sulfite's you will find is a must...pun intended, unless you intend to bottle in champagne bottles, we all have probably experience the frizante..or blown a cork or two by not doing this step properly. Planning to consume it within a year is O.K., if thats what you really want to do...BUT, you will be denying yourself a great reward in the quality you COULD enjoy by letting it age longer, so why limit yourself? One suggestion, if you truly intend to avoid the minimal amount of chemicals, would be to sterile filter your wine, that would be better than no protection at all.




My thoughts on "Organic"
Every week where I work (Mondays) we run a day of Organic cheese. Great care is taken from milk production (cow treatment, feed, etc) to the make itself(limit on what chemicals to clean sanitize, cultures used, etc.)
The market is definitely growing for these types of products, the thought being they are better for us. That the "old" way has the benefit of not using the modern science, and chemicals designed to protect us. Now, it sounds great, and allot of people buy into this, and the Profits are really great, a premium compared to regular made cheese...BUT, did or forefathers live as long as we do? NO. They were susceptible to much more sickness and disease, mostly due to the risk in the food chain. So while it seems like a good idea, fact is we have been there, and progressed to where we are for a reason.Edited by: JWMINNESOTA

 

[zember311]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you all.


Ok, I am ordering a P.H kit and a So2 kit.....


And maybe some other goodies......

and maybe some decaf

Edited by: zember311

 

[grapeman]

Zember I am not even going to try to adress all your questions since others have answered them already. You say you are a 1-2-3 man and like directions. If that's the case(but I feel you really do like experimenting and living dangerously), just buy a kit with well written instructions. Those are easy and can be as simple as following the directions, 1,2,3,4.


If you like really cheap wine that doesn't taste up to it's potential, then you can consume it really young and probably not worry too much about preservation. Crack the cork on one and it smells bad, throw it away and open another one, maybe a second one until you get one not spoiled. When a bottle or three blow up on the carpet or walls and your wife's favorite dress, you will have plenty of reminder as why stabilizing is important.


Myself, I would rather use a few minor addititves in such small amounts that they are measured in 1/4 teaspoon or a few grams. That way I am reasonably sure my wine will still be good and my walls and floor safe in another couple years when those bottles start to taste really great.

 

[Tomy]

My Granddad shared many stories of making wine and corn squeezings when he was young. they picked the grapes in the fall, used a lard press which was also used for apples, and any other fruits to make juice. From the press it went into a clay jug of different sizes. the jugs were placed in a dark corner some where with a wittled wood bung in the top. After a month or too it went in to the cold room or vegatable celler along with grandma's canned veggs &amp; meat. It usually stayed under 50F or colder in the winter. There was no refrigeration or yeast used, no chemicals of any kind. In the spring when tempatures started to rise the jugs were then tasted, the ones that had gone bad were thrown away, and the good ones went in to the creek, down the well, any place including buyring them in a hole to try to keep the wine from going bad. It was usually consumed by the time the next harvest of grapes &amp; fruit. So go ahead, try the old ways of making wine with out any chemicals, but you had better make a quite a few jugs because a few will go bad. Tomy

Edited by: Tomy

 

[zember311]

Zember I am not even going to try to adress all your questions since others have answered them already. You say you are a 1-2-3 man and like directions. If that's the case(but I feel you really do like experimenting and living dangerously), just buy a kit with well written instructions. Those are easy and can be as simple as following the directions, 1,2,3,4.


No, What I wrote there was a hard read. I enjoy thinking outside the box. A 1 -2 -3 style is what I follow every day as a electronics repair geek. electrons and such only work one way, so it is either on or off. I dig that aspect in a controlled science of electronics, because you have a fundamental foundation to know what to expect. But in life,and hobbies I like to walk the path less walked without direct result

If you like really cheap wine that doesn't taste up to it's potential, then you can consume it really young and probably not worry too much about preservation. Crack the cork on one and it smells bad, throw it away and open another one, maybe a second one until you get one not spoiled. When a bottle or three blow up on the carpet or walls and your wife's favorite dress, you will have plenty of reminder as why stabilizing is important.




I'm one step ahead of you, I removed all the carpets before this last batch

But, no. I understand it now. so it's time to add more tools to my work bench

Myself, I would rather use a few minor addititves in such small amounts that they are measured in 1/4 teaspoon or a few grams. That way I am reasonably sure my wine will still be good and my walls and floor safe in another couple years when those bottles start to taste really great.




I figure the chemicals aren't bad as needed. i'll just eat one less hotdog per week. that will balance out the additional intake