Noob Fresh Grape Question

[Catrys]

Hi all,

I recently started attempting to make my first batch of wine from fresh grapes. My past wine making experience is only 4 kits from WE, so it's not that broad-based, but I have read a decent amount from this forum.

First, the basics:
I'm making a Concord wine (the grapes were free from my grandparents' garden), and got the recipe from WineMaker magazine's website (had to modify the recipe to the correct amount of grapes we had available).

The wine was started last week Saturday. We had approx. 31 lbs of grapes after destemming & removing any bad ones. First, we crushed the grapes, put them into a sanitized 5 gal paint strainer in the primary, added pectic enzyme as indicated on the bottle, and added 4 campden tablets after crushing them & dissolving them in some of the juice.

Next, we tested for sugar (SG = 1.044) and acid (1.25%), then added water to bring acid down to 0.75% and sugar to bring SG up to 1.095.

After covering the primary & waiting 24 hrs (kept at 68°F), a yeast starter was made & yeast pitched, along with 4 tsp of yeast nutrient. The must/wine was then stirred twice daily to keep the skins wet.

Based on the SG, it's now time to rack the wine into the secondary, and here's where I come to my noob question

...with the WE kits, you leave any sediment in the bottom of the primary when transferring to the secondary. I'm assuming that I should do the same when racking this concord wine. Is this true?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[grapeman]

What is the SG now? You transfer later with fresh grapes so that it doesn't foam over too badly from the secondary. You don't mention squeezing out the skins into the primary. I would do that before transfer. Then wait about 24 hours or until SG is close to 1.005, then rack to the carboy. Leave all the gross lees behind. These are different than the kits. You don't need all the lees for the added clarifier of a kit. You may and may not even use a clarifier. I just use time and settling for clarifying.

 

[Catrys]

The SG last night was 1.004, but it wasn't checked until late, so we (this wine is being made with some friends) are planning to transfer today. Thanks for the tip about squeezing the skins, I thought that might be what we were supposed to do, but now we will definitely do it.

Thanks for the help, appleman! We will leave the gross lees behind.

After the wine has fermented to dryness (which we will verify by making sure the SG is stable) in the carboy, we plan to add 1 crushed Campden tablet per gallon and then let it set in the same carboy for 4-6 weeks before racking (at least, that's what the recipe says to do). At the time of that racking, do we need to degass?

 

[Goodfella]

Yes you do Degass. Then add the k-meta.

 

[grapeman]

Sounds like you are right on course.

 

[elswitzer]

What does adding the crushed Camden the second time do? I have seen this is some recipes but not in others.

 

[grapeman]

The first dose of campden or k-meta stuns the native yeast on fresh grapes so the desired introduced strain can gain a foothold first. Then later the campden helps to preserve the wine.

 

[Catrys]

Hi all,

I think I'm still a bit fuzzy on what to do after fermentation is complete.

After racking from the primary into a carboy, we waited until the airlock bubbling slowed way down and then we verified that the SG was stable for 2 days in a row. Now, we are adding 1 crushed campden tablet per gallon (first dissolved in a small amount of the wine, then gently stirred into the bulk of the wine). My question is this: the recipe never says anything about topping up at this stage. With a WE kit, this would be where we would top up after degassing. Currently, the batch (approx. 5.5 gal) is in a 6 gal carboy. Based on the recipe, after adding the campden tablets, we were going to leave in this carboy for 4-6 weeks before racking off of the sediment, degassing (based on our discussion above) and topping up. Since we've added campden tablets and did not stir vigorously, is the wine protected by the campden and remaining CO2, or do I need to rack this wine now into a smaller carboy? (I have a second wine in progress as well which is approx. 4 gal in volume but is in a 6 gal carboy finishing up its fermentation.)

 

[grapeman]

I would get the wine off the sediment now and then top up if needed. 4 to six weeks is a long time to leave it on the sediment and with that much headspace. You could even degas it now a bit. Driving off most of the C02 will allow it to clear faster.

 

[Goodfella]

Yes.... I would do 1 of the following.


1) Top up
2) Rack to a smaller carboy
3) Add sanitized marbles

 

[Catrys]

Okay--my suspicion has been confirmed...We will plan to rack the wine off the sediment and into a smaller carboy as soon as possible. We will also degas. Unfortunately, it will have to wait until this weekend so I can go buy a carboy. Hopefully it won't be ruined by then.

Is it safe to put the sedimentious portion of the wine into a smaller (perhaps 1 gal) carboy and later rack the clear wine off of that and back into the main batch when we're in need of another top up? The sediment hasn't had a lot of time to compact, so I feel like there's probably some good wine still down there. Or, will this just ruin the main batch?

I don't think topping up with a similar wine now is really an option for us since I don't have any previous batches of concord wine to use, and everything I've tried from the stores is sweet. I'm assuming, of course, that I don't want to add any sugar back right now or the fermentation will re-start.

That reminds me of another question--for concord wine, has anyone made a dry wine, or do you typically back sweeten at the end after stabilizing? I've never had a dry concord and am really curious to know what it would be like.

So many questions, so little time! Sorry!

 

[grapeman]

You can refrigerate the lees, let it settle but only for a week or so and then keep the good wine off the top. You don't want to leave the wine on the gross lees long enough to compact down. When you use fresh grapes, this is not only dead yeast like in a kit, but grape pulp that can rot and lead to off flavors.


You can finish Concord dry, but the flavors are brought out more by sweetening. It can also be tart when dry, depending on how ripe the grapes were.

 

[Brewgrrrl]

Breathe, my friend, just breathe - the wine is not going to be ruined by this weekend! When theearlier fermentation occurs, a lot of CO2 is produced. CO2 is heavier than O2, so right now in your primary there is a nice snuggly blanket of CO2 covering your developing wine (picture this in your mind and breathe deep breaths - ah, everything is fine!).


I completely agree with all of the advice here. Just another note of reassurance though, when I started making my first fruit wines last summer I got really sick and couldn't rack my 1 gallon mulberry wine out of the primary for TWO MONTHS. I thought for sure that poor wine was ruined (which was especially awful given the amount of time I'd spent picking those dern mulberries). I went ahead and racked it anyway, and a few months after that I was drinking the most delicious mulberry wine... whew!


Disclaimer: I am not recommending this irresponsible wine-making behavior but - usually things will work out. My biggest blunders have always been when I try to "fix" something that would best be left on its own or worked with more slowly.

 

[Brewgrrrl]

(also, CO2 is brought to the top of the wine by degassing and adding cambden, so - really, you will be fine until this weekend)

 

[Catrys]

This weekend we racked the first batch off of its sediment and into a 5 gal carboy. There was quite a bit of sediment at the bottom, but I suppose this has to do with it being from fresh grapes instead of a kit.

We degassed and added K sorbate, having already added the K meta. I was surprised to find we got very little gas coming up using the Mix Stir. Usually with the kits I need to degas for a few minutes at a time for a couple hours to be sure I've gotten everything. This time, we might go back and use a vacuvin to be sure all the gas is gone, but there weren't many bubbles coming up the side. Is this normal?

 

[Catrys]

Also, we taste tested the wine. I was pleased to find that it smelled like concord (no off flavors readily present). From the nose, my palate expected the wine to be sweet, even though mentally I knew it would be dry. It was amazing to me how much the nose and taste of concord tried to sway my palate into perceiving sweetness, even though there was none. I was quite intrigued.

Right now, I'm thinking we might try bottling some dry, then back-sweetening the rest.

 

[grapeman]

It is normal to get a lot of lees at the bottom of the wine unless you settle it off for a couple days before racking into a carboy after initial pressing.


Wine from grapes typically does have less gas in it for some reason- it's normal. I see it as a benefit to using fresh grapes.


Lastly - ah the power of the mind! You have been raised with fresh grape juice made of Concord grapes- and it is sweet. The brain smells the tell tale odors of Concord and immediately says "This will be sweet". You can finish it dry or give it any varying degree of sweetness. That's your choice since you will be drinking it. I have had it both ways.

 

[peaches9324]

are there any certain kind of marbles needed? or are the ones from the craft store ok?

 

[grapeman]

Just don't buy the painted ones from China. Other than that they will be fine.