New barrels

[Rocky]

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered two 23 liter Hungarian oak barrels from Vadai. I plan to used them for short terms aging. I have not had a new barrel for many years, so I have some questions that I am sure can be answered here.


Conditioning. The Vadai site has a conditioning regimen which takes one thru a conditioning process using water. Is there any reason not to follow what is on their site?


Aging/Oaking wines. In an earlier post (I believe back in April or so) a schedule was posted on how long to let the first, second, third, etc. batch in the barrel. I think it was 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks, etc. Is there general agreement with this schedule?


Barrels I have used in the past were former whiskey barrels from the Schenley Distillery in PA. I bought a couple of oak barrels in Rochester when I was there but I don't remember the conditioning or the aging schedule. (I do remember having a 20 gallon Canadian chestnut barrel but I was not pleased with the taste it imparted.)


So, for those of you who have recently purchased new barrels, would you please share your experiences. BTW, I did order the stands and the rubber bungs. Thank you.

 

[ibglowin]

Hey Rocky!

Great choice on barrels. I have (2) 23L myself now. Follow the conditioning regimen to the letter. I had no problems with my first, but my 2nd took almost a week to seal up 100%. I almost sent it back but was determined to stick it out. It was such a perfect piece of work I just couldn't give up on it. Don't add any wine until you have zero drops of water leaking out. Remember wine is "thinner" than water, so if you are seeing any drips of water you will see more drips with wine. I ended up buying some canning wax on the 2nd barrel to finally get it to quit leaking,

I have found that the breakin schedule is slightly on the conservative side. On my first barrel I followed the 2 week, 4 week, 8 week schedule. The wines tasted fine when I pulled them but the oak faded afer a couple of months back in the carboy. On the 2nd barrel I am doubling the time to 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 16 weeks since I have some data to suggest the Oak will fade back rather quickly.

This is entirely different than oaking with beans or cubes which seem to intensify for a year or so before settling back down.


Good choice on the stands and the silicon bungs.

I know you will be very pleased with the barrels!

 

[Rocky]

Mike, so you take the wine from the barrel back to a carboy. Do you think the results would have been any different if you had gone from the barrel to the bottle? That is, do you think the oak would have faded in the bottle at the same rate as it did in the carboy? This is the path that I was planning. I did not consider taking it back to a carboy.

 

[ibglowin]

No diference. My carboys are stoppered tight for long term bulk aging.

 

[ibglowin]

I have also returned my fresh grape Cab Sauv and Merlot back to the barrel for a second and much longer run than the first.

The only thing you need to keep an eye on is the amount of free SO2.

The barrel will deplete about 20ppm in 3 mo time!

 

[Rocky]

Thanks for the heads up on the SO2, Mike. I might not have rechecked that.

 

[Rocky]

One other question, Mike. Do you have spigots in any of your barrels? I did not buy any but I have drilled barrels and installed a spigot in the past. I am not planning to do this at this point because I do not intend to keep the wine in the barrel for an appreciable lenght of time.


When we were making whiskey barrels full of wine, we had spigots on the barrels and a special bung that was drilled and had a tapered dowel inserted. The dowel was removed to equalize the pressure when wine was output through the spigot. Of course, we had a very constant wine cellar temperature of about 55 degrees. F.

 

[Waldo]

Where are the pictures Rocky

 

[Rocky]

Two problems, Waldo. I don't have the barrels yet and secondly, I still can't figure out how to re-size the pix so I can post them. I did it once with my dogs but for the life of me, I can'tremember how I did it. I probably pushed random buttons until it worked and the promptly forgot the sequence. I will try to figure it out before the barrels get here.


I wish it were rocket science. I would have a better chance of figuring it out.

 

[ASAI]

One trick I have used to resize pics is to let windows do it. I don't rememer the exact procedure, can look it up and try and error and then post if needed. As best I recall open the picture in explorer, right click, select send as email. Email to my self. Some where in that process as I recall it gives a option of selecting sizes. I then save the returned pic in a email folder to send as needed.

 

[ibglowin]

No spigots. I just use the auto siphon. Carboy is up high, barrel is on the floor. Rack as usual. It will be pretty heavy when full to lift back up but nothing I have not been able to achieve by myself.

 

[lieu]

Hey Rocky,
If you go to the how to tutorials and look at the thread that Masta has on re-sizing pic there is a link to a re-sizer. I did it and it worked fine. There is now an icon on my desk top. I also have a folder on my desk top with pics in it and all I have to do is drag the folder onto the icon for the resizer and presto its done. I think it asks you what size you want the pics. If you put 640x480 you should be just fine. (at least I was)
Believe me if I was able to do it you can.

 

[Rocky]

Lieu, This is only a test.

I am using this artwork for my label for my Concord Wine. This is Concord Bridge.


"By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood,
And fired the shot heard 'round the World."

 

[lieu]

There you go Rocky.

 

[Goodfella]

Good job Rocky

 

[Waldo]

Lieu, This is only a test.

I am using this artwork for my label for my Concord Wine. This is Concord Bridge.


"By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once thewine makingfarmers stood,
Sharing their "Concord" wine, now so loved'round the World."

 

[Rocky]

It would seemit is more than a coincidence that the original quote that I had up there is from Ralph WALDO Emerson! Are you related? Good job, Waldo.

 

[Rocky]

My new barrels arrived today and I am studying my next moves. The procedure for "leak proofing" them is straight-forward, but I have a question on the storage of the barrels when not in use. (I realize that for many of you, they are never "in storage" and are always full of wine.)


In past years when I had barrels and were not using them, we stored them dry after thoroughly cleaning and sanitizing them. When we needed them the next year, we rinsed them out, filled them with hot water and left them until they showed no signs of leaking.


The directions that I got from Sandor have three alternatives for storage, all of which required twice monthly to monthly attention. Being somewhat lazy (actually, I am pacing myself) I was looking for an easier way. What do you Guys and Gals do? Thanks.

 

[robie]

Rocky,Congrats on the new barrels. I am getting ready to order a 23l Vidai, myself.
A couple of months ago Winemaker magazine had an article about Tim V. using a new barrel. Hefermented two chardonnay kits in his new barrel before he put in any reds for oaking/aging.
Tim V. said the yeast from the fermentation imparted some special, longlastingcharacteristics to the barrel.
Seems like a good way to break in a new barrel, but I don't know for sure. I wonder how that would affect the standard procedures of 2 week, 4 weeks, ..etc?

 

[ibglowin]

I think its 10X easier to just keep them full thats a no brainer.....

The maintenance for an empty barrel is more work than keeping it full. I don't think you will have any trouble keeping them full Rocky!

My real world experience is the smaller the barrel the harder it can be to seal properly. Do not put wine in before you have zero drops on an overnight fill with water. Follow the breakin instructions. If you are leaking a drop or two of H2O it will be worse with wine which as we all know is thinner than H2O.

Barrel oaking is different than bean oaking. Barrel oaking seems to fall back after a few months whereas bean oaking does not. Every batch that I have put into my first barrel has had to go back into to it down the road as it lost its oak level.

If you run a couple of whites though it first your reds will be able to stay in longer for sure. On my first 23L barrel I did the 2 week, 4 week, 8 week schedule but on my second barrel I am doing a 4 week, 8 week, 16 week schedule.

Line up 2-3 carboys relax and just rotate them in. You can always rotate one back in as well as long as you keep up the SO2 levels.

Enjoy, you are going to love it. I am going to order a 40L for fresh grapes this Fall. I should be able to rotate the wines in and out to keep it full all year until the next crush comes.

The directions that I got from Sandor have three alternatives for storage, all of which required twice monthly to monthly attention. Being somewhat lazy (actually, I am pacing myself) I was looking for an easier way. What do you Guys and Gals do? Thanks.