MLF stuck at the 50 yard line

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homer

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I have a couple of batches of white and red that I can't get the MLF to finish, do I give up and sulfate it or go for a second batch of MLB? bk
 

homer

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I wonder how accurate these test are? The first Chardonel, with no MLB shows the same as the one that underwnt MLF. bk

chrom test #1.jpg
 

Luse_Cellar

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My advice is also to warm it up and maybe mix it up a bit as well. If you don't have a good way of doing this you could go ahead and give it some sulfite, and wait until spring when ambient temps warm up. If you go this route you should do a smaller than normal sulfite addition and have an accurate way to test your current level and levels in the spring. Am I reading your chromatography paper right, does the date say August 19th?
 

homer

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Wrong date, should say 10/19 ... I don't see any difference between the one that underwent MLF and the one that didn't. The two reds on the right are just a couple of weeks into MLF? bk
 

ceeaton

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Wrong date, should say 10/19 ... I don't see any difference between the one that underwent MLF and the one that didn't. The two reds on the right are just a couple of weeks into MLF? bk
I'm trying to figure out how you see any difference at all. How long did you let the paper stand in the nasty solution? Looks pretty light at the top, might want to run the tests longer so you get a better contrast between the background and the yellow areas. Maybe it is just the image, but it looks like there was a lack of solution wicked to the top of the test paper, which usually means a rushed test. Did you do a test before introducing the MLB? It usually is helpful to have that to compare as you can tell if there has been any consumption of the malic acid (malic gets less yellow, lactic gets more yellow as MLF moves along).
 

Luse_Cellar

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I'm trying to figure out how you see any difference at all. How long did you let the paper stand in the nasty solution? Looks pretty light at the top, might want to run the tests longer so you get a better contrast between the background and the yellow areas. Maybe it is just the image, but it looks like there was a lack of solution wicked to the top of the test paper, which usually means a rushed test. Did you do a test before introducing the MLB? It usually is helpful to have that to compare as you can tell if there has been any consumption of the malic acid (malic gets less yellow, lactic gets more yellow as MLF moves along).
I think the image is kinda hard to see but if you tilt the top of your screen away from you you can see it better. It does appear that the two wines on the right are close to done (which is surprising after a couple weeks), but none of the others look like they're done or close to done.

Homer, can you give us a quick run-through of your ML procedure? And have you been monitoring temperatures at all?
 

ceeaton

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I think the image is kinda hard to see but if you tilt the top of your screen away from you you can see it better. It does appear that the two wines on the right are close to done (which is surprising after a couple weeks), but none of the others look like they're done or close to done.

Homer, can you give us a quick run-through of your ML procedure? And have you been monitoring temperatures at all?
That does help, thanks. I'm still seeing traces of yellow, so they are moving (though it would be nice to compare to an original test) but they need more time. After I see what appears as completion on a test I wait another two weeks to add Kmeta.

I'd also like to know the pH's of the wines when you pitched the MLB, what strain of MLB and what type of yeast was used for fermentation, etc, etc. Need more info to help and not lead you astray, @homer .
 

Luse_Cellar

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That does help, thanks. I'm still seeing traces of yellow, so they are moving (though it would be nice to compare to an original test) but they need more time. After I see what appears as completion on a test I wait another two weeks to add Kmeta.
Definitely would be best to compare to an original but the chromatography really isn't the most accurate test anyways. If I remember correctly, it will only show Malic if it's over 30ppm or something along those lines. Even if the test shows no Malic, there could easily still be 30ppm left, which is plenty for something other than Oenococcus to metabolize down the line. I agree that waiting to hit it with SO2 is a good bet.
 

ceeaton

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Definitely would be best to compare to an original but the chromatography really isn't the most accurate test anyways. If I remember correctly, it will only show Malic if it's over 30ppm or something along those lines. Even if the test shows no Malic, there could easily still be 30ppm left, which is plenty for something other than Oenococcus to metabolize down the line. I agree that waiting to hit it with SO2 is a good bet.
I've heard both 30 ppm and 40 ppm. But at least with an initial test you'd have an idea where you started and how fast it is progressing. I figure if I'm gonna take the time to test it I might as well be able to glean as much info as I possibly can when using an inaccurate means like chromatography.
 

homer

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Paper sat in the solution for close to 8 hours. The test all show the same results about 50% done except the two on the right. Ill dig out the old test and post. I believe I used VP41 MLB. bk
 

ceeaton

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Paper sat in the solution for close to 8 hours. The test all show the same results about 50% done except the two on the right. Ill dig out the old test and post. I believe I used VP41 MLB. bk
Well, 8 hours is usually what I do, so it must be the image that is making it hard to see. Thanks.
 

Luse_Cellar

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I've heard both 30 ppm and 40 ppm. But at least with an initial test you'd have an idea where you started and how fast it is progressing. I figure if I'm gonna take the time to test it I might as well be able to glean as much info as I possibly can when using an inaccurate means like chromatography.
I definitely agree that having some idea even if it's somewhat inaccurate is way better than guessing. And also agree that making the best of your somewhat inaccurate measurement is even better than that!
 

homer

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What do you think about the Vinmetrica MLF tester? bk
 
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