Maximum temp for wine storage

[Sammyk]

Thank you Julie! I think we are going to look into an air conditioner that can work without a window. We do have an air conditioner for the guest room and may just air condition the whole room.

If we were going to stay in this home we would dig a wine cellar in a hill next to the garage.

 

[Rocky]

"If we were going to stay in this home we would dig a wine cellar in a hill next to the garage."

Now, there is a great idea. If you get down below the frost line, which I would not imagine is very deep in NC, you will keep the temperatures in the 50's.

 

[Sammyk]

Rocky we do not have a frost line here. Ground does not freeze as we do not get cold enough or long enough. That is why the crawl space worked good.

Problem is the mold/mildew and it is really hard to access without crawling on hands and knees and we are too old to do that.
Next home will have something more accessible if we decide to continue in wine making. Our plans are to travel though.

 

[DaveL]

You most definetly have a frost line. VA is 16-18 inches. You won't be much less. Of course an 18 inch cellar wouldn't be much use so it shouuld not be a problem. I am assuming your still in NC as your bio says.

 

[Sammyk]

DaveL I am sorry you are wrong, we do not have a frost line where we live. I have ponds and water gardens here and they do not even get ice on them!
We moved here in 2000 and have never seen a frost line. In fact, we weed our massive flower beds every winter.

 

[TonyP]

DaveL I am sorry you are wrong, we do not have a frost line where we live. I have ponds and water gardens here and they do not even get ice on them!
We moved here in 2000 and have never seen a frost line. In fact, we weed our massive flower beds every winter.

It sounds wonderful. FYI, though, I looked at the weather right now and it says Newtown NC is 28F. The temp. in the past few days has been in the 20s. I lived in Charlseton, SC (200 miles south of Newtown) for several years and we had frost a few times a year.

 

[Julie]

Actually, Sammyk you do have a frost line. Most places do, just because you have not seen anything freeze over does not mean you do not have a frost line. You probably should fine out what the frostline is in your area, if you have a big storm come thru and you end up with low temps for a period of time you can see things freeze up on you.

 

[Sammyk]

We are in a cold snap here right now but going back up to the 60's in a two days. Yes we do get frost here but the ground does not freeze. NOTE: frost and freezing ground /frost line is completely different elements.

It does not stay cold enough for the ground to freeze here. Two or three years ago we got 6 inches of snow (snow is rare for us) but it melted a day later because the ground was 55 degrees. And it was only because of the 6 inch volume it took 2 days to melt. An inch or two of snow (which is rare) will melt by 11am once the sun hits it.

In the mountains yes they probably have a frost line but I am not in the mountains. I have not tested the dirt in the mountains with the temperature probe so I cannot say one way or another if they have a frost line or not.

My business is plants (we owned a nursery/garden center for 13 years in MI and an aquatic business here for 13 years) and we have grown every kind of plant for the OVER 40 years. I started at 21 years old with my own greenhouse and a houseplant business.
In MI where we are from, frost line was 36 inches.
Do any of you have a probe to test the temperature of dirt/ the ground? Well, I do and the dirt stays 55 degrees in the winter.

TonyP yes you probably had a frost in Charleston but I can promise you your ground did not freeze nor did you have a frost line where the ground froze so that you could not dig in the dirt.

Heck they have frost in FL but that does not mean that their ground freezes. And a frost line is how deep down the ground freezes!

 

[Sammyk]

Julie you are USDA zone 6 A and my guess is your frost line is around 12 to 18 inches. That is just a guess. How far am I off?
TonyP you don't list your location but I could probably give a good guess on your frost line if I knew it.

 

[Sammyk]

Here is our 5 day outlook, I rest my case. freezing rain yesterday but high of 50 today. Now how long with the .10 of an inch of ice last in 50 degrees?


Today Jan 26

50°F
24°F
Partly Cloudy

Chance of rain:0% Wind: NNW at 4 mph Details


Sun Jan 27

45°
30°
Partly Cloudy

Chance of rain:0% Wind: E at 5 mph Details


Mon Jan 28

54°
40°
Cloudy

Chance of rain:10% Wind: S at 6 mph Details


Tue Jan 29

68°
53°
Partly Cloudy

Chance of rain:10% Wind: SSW at 6 mph Details


Wed Jan 30

64°
43°
T-Showers

Chance of rain:60% Wind: SSW at 11 mph

 

[Julie]

Sammy the comments here were not intended to become a debate, more of a caution than anything else. No one is asking you to prove anything.

If I lived in NC and I was looking to store my wine underground I would assume there was a frostline simply because it does snow there and it does get below freezing, even if it is only occasionaly. Today's weather is always changing, we have more warm days in the winter here than we had when I was a child.

Again, just my opinion not a debate.

 

[TonyP]

Julie you are USDA zone 6 A and my guess is your frost line is around 12 to 18 inches. That is just a guess. How far am I off?
TonyP you don't list your location but I could probably give a good guess on your frost line if I knew it.

I live off the Atlantic in Lewes, Delaware. I know my zone is 7B.

 

[Sammyk]

Tony you too may get frost but I am betting your ground does not freeze either and you have not frost line.

In the 13 years we have lived here I can count on one hand the number of times we had snow in my area.

 

[novalou]

Tony you too may get frost but I am betting your ground does not freeze either and you have not frost line.

In the 13 years we have lived here I can count on one hand the number of times we had snow in my area.

I think you are all missing the point. Regardless of your location, you just need to be far enough in the ground where the temperature remains stable year round. So in Sammy's case, maintain 55F in the summertime. Probably need to go down 2-3 feet, I imagine.

 

[DaveL]

http://www.catawbacountync.gov/depts/u&e/designcodes.pdf

Sorry, I like a good debate.Its a great way to learn. The world would be a boring place if we all saw things the same way. I look at this conversation through the prism of 20+ years in the foundation business.
But this is strictly a theoretical debate since any celler you build is likely to be more that 10" deep anyway.

 

[Sammyk]

Not sure what your point is DaveL. While we do live in Catawba county we are on a geological ridge in our own micro climate. This was told to me by the Department of Agriculture inspector when we asked why does it not rain here for the most part when it rains all around us. Two miles from us a friend will get a few inches of rain and we get nothing.

WE don't have cellars/basements here because of the cost of digging in red clay.

And if we were to build a wine cellar which we won't, it would be 6 to 8' deep, so the point is really moot.

In our next home maybe/maybe not on a wine cellar.

We don't have cellars/basements because of the cost of digging in red clay.

 

[DaveL]

No real point other than I think we differ on the definition of Frost line.
Other than that we are saying the same thing It's a moot point.
I bet we could have a fun discussion about politics over a beer or better yet a glass of skeeter pee. lol