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Waldo,

It was $20 for 50#'s, So I will get at least two rounds of fertilizing out of this bag. Or I can try to BS some more.

Rich,

I'll keep an eye on those walking "canes" and be sure to propagate them to as many of my compadres that would like to plant a couple bushes.

Al,

I still haven't gotten to drink of your bottle yet. But I think its going to happen this weekend.
 
I was in the local Home Depot yesterday and snagged two raspberry bushes. I just finished planting them in the yard along the fence line. The planting directions say they like part sun 4-6 hours a day. So I figure the fence will shade them the majority of the day. Can't wait to watch these beauties grow. I need to go take some pictures.....
 
Here is one of the 2 raspberry plants.....

Raspberries.jpg


Not sure how to prune this at this point. I cut back all the weaker runners and have only 1 main vine on each plant now. Using this carlos as an example. Do I need to prune back the green leafing at the base (trunk) of this vine? Anyone that has experience with the vines please give me some know how.

CarlosPruning.jpg
 
The raspbarry looks fine. I am not sure about the Carlos grapevine, but for this year I would think you could leave it as is and prune next year according to growth this year.
 
Amazing what a month will do............Two of the vines have reached the trellis wire.  Carlos got there first, then Ison, the next will be the other Ison.  I hope that the Dixie Red makes it before the vine goes dormant again.  The raspberries are liking their shady fence line home.  And the elderberries have gone from 1 foot to 2.5-3.0 feet tall.  Click the link to see a slide show of it on photobucket.http://s728.photobucket.com/albums/ww289/mgaudet5/Lost%20Dog%20Vineyards/?action=view&current=93314dee.pbw
 
they are off to the races~!...best of fortune this year


remember to let grapes bush up and use those leaves to make lots of leaves for photosynthesis so the roots get lots of food so the trunk(s) you choose next year get the focus of all available energy


Cent anni!
 
I hope I didn't do anything wrong, but my readings said to pick the best / longest runner and prune everything else that would compete. SO I trimmed them back to the one best vine (in my opinion). I'm also letting the leaves bush up on the future trunk, but I'm also carefully taking off the tendrils that want to girdle the trunk. These vines should grow to 20 feet in a few years. I've read that it isn't uncommon for 5-6 feet a year. If only I could be so lucky
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Also I have a bunch of flowers developing on the Adams Elderberry plant. Very exciting stuff I know....

Might get you guys a picture tomorrow.....
 
the tendrils wont do any real damage...but if you take them off of the trunk it won't hurt


there is plenty of growing season to go for you.. there is more than one school of thought on guiding a vine to fruition (pun intended)


i cannot say i understand your climate and growing season, so i will only state what i do....


let the vine grow and forget the idea that it 'has' to look like a trellised vine this year and next year prune back to your best buds on the trunk which should be at least pencil thickness ( a vine that had a lot of photosynthesis will have a trunk or more than one that fits this description. I saw a picture of a fellow in NY that had tried to make his vine look like a trellis picture perfect vine in his first year and the picture of his second year (spring) was one of a spindly weak looking thing that should have been cut back to about 16 inches from the ground.


Trust me...I *understand* the desire to have a vineyard look like a vineyard whether its 1 vine of a hundred vines....all the effort you put in tugs at you...you want to see results and it is usually preconceived notions held by you or others witnessing what you are doing that guides this desire.....close your eyes to those thoughts.....the vine has no ideas like this.....and its needs do not fit these notions.....it needs a benevolent parent that knows that its root system is what it needs to develop that first year, just like a newborn has to have its proper milk before anything else


in the first year, do what you have to do to keep the leaves off the ground and use the year to get to get yourself in a pattern and schedule of what needs to be done on a routine basis...fertilize regularly...get the beginnings of a spray program going...and do what weed control youhave to get going.


I remember going into my second season a lady walked by the vineyard after i had finished pruning and she said she felt bad because she thought i had lost everything over the winter.....it hit me at that moment that indeed it did look that way...after all i had just removed 95+ percent of the wood from last years growth...and i admit it was hard to cut back trunnks and cordon quality canes....but that second year you are going to get explosive growth that you *can* train into beautifully shaped trunks and cordons...not that mine are beautifully shaped hahahaha, i had to endure a learning curve...but i can tell you this...because of my first go 'round w training my second group of vines planted last year WILL be beautiflly trained this year as i was more severe in the pruning of the last four hundred vines added than i was w the first 1000+ in fact a friend who helped me prune this year so he can correct his own vineyard said over and over again how severe i was compared to what he thought should be done....he would find himself constantly trying to leave a lot of wood on what he was pruning because he has the *save* and *protect* and care mentality when it comes to plants in general and time and time again i would walk by what he pruned and cut 50% off the vine as he had left it


Because of our cold climate i was more fearful about what would make it thru the winter, so you would not find it uncommon to see 2-4 trunks on a vine in that first group and straight was not always possible....and i will whittle those away w time to just one or two trunks...this last group is 90 percent one trunk....maybe sixteen inches from the ground and i know they will be explosive in their second year...and at next years pruning ( their thrid leaf) they will look like a properly trellis vine and in their case it will be VSP


i want to add one thing that i think is VERY important and i have witnessed this myself.....i have seen wood left on a young vine because someone wanted to save that nice straight wine vine wood that was trained the year before....and then the second year growth was so vigorous that it superceded the size/diameter of the wood from that first year....so you had a baseball bat being supported by a toothpick...the trunk at about 10-12 inches was nice and then it tapered to something thinner, but the person thought it *looked* like a vine so they kept the fruit of their previous years labor....forget that idea....cut it back in the second year to between a foot and maybe 18 inches off the ground....you wont be sorry


anyways..i ramble


what trellis system have you decided or thought about for the long term?
 
Hey anytime someone who has expertise growing (or just doing)something I am a novice at I listen. I will stop pinching off the vines and let it grow. I will keep it within reason of course since I don't want any more runners competing for the trunks. I will keep an eye on the tendrils so that they don't cause any problems. And above all I am going to keep with the schedule of fertilization and calcium nitrate that I was urged to follow from Ison's out in GA. They have decades of experience and I have months
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Thanks Al..............

PS I noticed a berry bunch forming on the York Elderberry bush as well.
 
I will be fertilizing again on May 1, then on May 15 more calcium nitrate. These vines look great so far. I will take pictures when I fertilize to keep a record of how things are progressing.

Thanks to all for advice.....

Mike
 
Well I fertilized all vines as scheduled, just forgot to take pictures of the progress. Here are some shots from this morning after I did the pruning back of the canes from the trunk (bear with me I'm just learning the vineyard terminology). I got my Muscadine Bible from Ison's vineyard in GA and started reading up on how to make them grow properly. I took all the growth off the trunks leaving only the top wire runners. I went back and rubbed all the buds off the trunk as well. All that cutting made me nervous, but this has been done for decades by men wiser than me that had the foresite to document how to do it.....

Anyways, here's the pictures.

ISON #1 - The longest runner going as of today.</font>
Ison1.jpg


Ison #2 - Made it to the trellis wire and looks like it should grow well also.</font>
Ison2.jpg


Dixie Red #1 - The surprise vine of the year. It was the real runt of the litter and it made it to the trellis wire as well.</font>
DixieRed1.jpg


Carlos#1 - It was first to the top of the trellis, but has slowed. Have some browning issues with the leaves, but have trimmed it back and hope that it will grow more.</font>
Carlos1.jpg
 
I know you are a southern guy so I understand if the terms are different. The "runners" you speak of are called shoots in the current growing season. At the beginning of the next year(actually after they harden off this year) they become canes. Now if you leave that top cane the following year it becomes a cordon.


They are certainly growing for you in all that sourhtern sun. Keep up the good work.
 
They do seem to like the location I planted them in. I was worried that there wouldn't be enough sun. I do plan to make a better trellis system I want to put some 8' 4x4s about 12-16 inches behind the vines root system, then run some #9 wire down to the fence. If I read right, I think I am supposed to cut back all this seasons growth back to the wire next February while its dormant. This seasons growth is meant to establish the trunk and roots (year 1). Second season will establish the cordon at trellis level. I hope I'm understanding this right.
 
That's what they tell you, but with vigor like yours you may be able to use it for the cordon next year. The vine won't care which way you handle it, it will just keep growing!
 
Question for you Rich et al.....

When I do my winter pruning in February, is that the best time to propagate the vine? It should be hard wood cuttings right??
 
I have no idea on the Muscadines what is the best way to root. I have heard it can be difficult to impossible to root some varieties. Anybody else have experience with them??????
 
July 1

I decided to fertilize the vines today as recommended by the Ison's guide book. While outside, I noticed something unusual.....

Baby grape clusters on the Ison variety of black grape.......... This vine already is on the trellis and has grown about 6-7 feet down the line already. I will try to post pictures tomorrow as the light is gone and I only took pics with my iphone (they were not that good)

I trimmed back an errant cane of one last week and put it in a bottle and it seems to be holding its own. I think Northern is gonna make this one root for me....... I read somewhere to take green cuttings for the best success outside of them being dormant, regardless, the leaves haven't wilted and its been in water for 4 days now... Cross your fingers for me ladies and gents..........
 
appleman said:
That's what they tell you, but with vigor like yours you may be able to use it for the cordon next year. The vine won't care which way you handle it, it will just keep growing!

I'd have to agree with you. As warm as it stays around here. The vine is hardening off pretty well. I will get some pictures to show you where the wine is actually hardening off. I know that it will all grow until late Sept or early October as it stays hot down here for a while.
 
Aren't they just soooooo cute???

isongrapes.jpg


Got it on roids............ I think its over 7 feet now. Just fertilized again yesterday. The other vines are ok, but not as good growth wise. The post is almost 6 feet tall so use your best judgement as to how long this has grown.

Isonvine1.jpg
 

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