Mosti Mondiale kitmaking video series

[sharpstick]

This is a pretty complete demonstration of making a Mosti Mondiale
wine kit:


http://finevinewines.com/Wine-makers-toy-store-video.html

My observations:

- Don't bother with a hand corker. Splurge and go with a floor corker.

- I use a plastic gallon jug with a screw cap for sanitizer, not glass.

- I don't use a primary with a spigot. I've been using an autosiphon.

- He poured in a whole bottle of metabisulfite into a gallon for
sanitizer! I've been mixing it with 1.5 tsp per gallon.

- Adhesive labels - may be more trouble than they're worth if they are
hard to remove.

- He prepares his bentonite separately in a cup, letting it sit for 30
minutes. From my experience, bentonite would congeal into a hard clump
that way. The other kits i've done started with 2 quarts of hot water as
the first ingredient in the bucket, then stir in the bentonite,
constantly so that it goes completely into suspension. (bentonite is
basically the same clay that kitty litter is made of) (technically
speaking it isn't "dissolving", but is being broken up into suspension.
Clay is composed of very fine particles of rock that tend to stick
together) I'm curious to try this way of preparing the bentonite myself.

- Rehydrating yeast is a good optional step. It not only prepares the
yeast for fermentation but test that it is viable. This is determined by
foaming at the surface.

- This is the first kit that I've seen that includes yeast nutrient.

- I've always seen oak added at the very beginning instead of the
secondary transfer.

- I cover my primary with a towel only(plus a metal grid to keep the
occasional cat from falling in) I think that oxygenation is good for the
first few days. I do tend to transfer to the carboy a bit earlier
though. And I do miss that musical sound of a bubbler in a plastic bucket.

- Degassing: When the Vacuvin clicks, it means that it has reached its
pressure level. As I understand it, it won't remove anymore air, so
there is no reason to continue pumping. I prefer using an electric
vacuum pump. I found a used on on ebay for a little over $100. Good
point about not building up too much vacuum, though. I hadn't thought of
that. That would be more of an issue if your carboy isn't full. And note
that vacuum pumping only works on glass carboys. I now prefer Better
Bottles, especially considering that a glass carboy weighs 12 lbs and
can be a dangerous glass object. (I read a story of someone who slipped
while washing his in the sink and slashed his arm open requiring
stitches). When I do decide to degas, I transfer to glass first. With
bulk aging, degassing is much less of a requirement.

- Fining: I usually leave out the fining stuff, bulk age for a few weeks
or months and add only if it's cloudy (once out of the last half dozen
kits). I do use the bentonite at the beginning, though.

- Finishing: sorbate and sulfite are mixed together (I've always heard
that they are mixed in separately, by some as much as a day apart) right
before bottling. (All other kits I've seen require adding these and then
aging for a couple weeks before bottling.

- I use Kmeta for wine additive and NA-meta for sanitizing. NA will add
a salty taste to wine, but is cheaper.

- I don't soak or rinse my corks with sulfite solution anymore. After
seeing much discussion on this, I use a corkidor( a gallon container
with a small container of supersaturated sulfite solution in the bottom,
with a batch worth of corks stored in it for at least several days
before bottling. Google the term for more info.)



Bear in mind that I have not made any MM kits and these are just my
observations based on my previous experiences with other kits and
endless discussions on wine forums. I've seen that there are many
opinions that are ardently rehashed, but the winemaking process is very
flexible and forgiving, so there are no absolute rights or wrongs.
(Okay, there are definitely a few absolute wrongs!)



bill keiser

 

[grapeman]

Bill, There are definitely many ways of doing things. George, the owner of the store, videographer and forum owner, has gone through great pains in preparing this series of videos and is working on expanding it to include videos on other kit makers procedures and many other subjects. I am sure you vary from some procedures as other kit manufacturers tell you to.Mosti feels these procedures George demonstrates are best for their kits- such as the bentonite soaking. They use a different bentonite than the normal powder and the procedure works very well without the big clump you speak of. You need to use this type of bentonite for this procedure. George used the bottle of k-meta for sanitizing at the correct rate. Follow instructions on each container- they may have different recommended rates per manufacturer.
I guess my point is that observations of differences with your methods are fine, but these videos are specific to Mosti Kits. Best to follow their directions on their kits. Like I said, George will be adding the other kit manufacturers methods as he can tape them.

 

[Wade E]

Sharpstick, glad to see you are still with us as with the other forum. Wine making in general is great and just the fact that we can all communicate together and express our opinions is what makes this a great experience. I too agree and disagree with some of the different instructions that are given by various manufacturers and we just have to settle with what we are comfortable with. Changes happen every day, some for the better and some for the worst and i personally pick and choose from them. In example I do like the Bentonite procedure MM uses but dont like the early transfer but time will tell what comes of that. Thanks for posting your opinions and staying with the game. Keep current with us friend as you are a valuable asset to every wine maker out there.

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

Good observations Bill, I think you nailed it, there are allot of ways to do this, with no absolutes. But then, thats what makes it fun and interesting for so many.

 

[smurfe]

I feel more like a winemaker with the Mosti kits that with other brands. With others, if you can make a pitcher of Kool-Aid you can make wine. While the Mosti kits aren't much harder I believe the differences are due mainly to different variations of ingredients such as the Bentonite. WE uses a powder form and Mosti uses little pellets. It looks like maggots when re-hydrated. They do dissolve pretty good when stirred after hydrating.
I think the oaking in secondary give more contact time and more balanced flavor than for just a few days in primary.I know many would add extra oak in the secondary with the WE kits. I have not found the need to with any Mosti kit. I personally never have cared for the sawdust oak and would leave it out and use oak cubes to oak. Much cleaner and true oak characteristics. I always detect a bitter, smoky aftertaste from powdered oak.


Other thing such as re-hydrating yeast is only there because the yeast manufacturer suggests it right on the yeast packet. You don't have to and often I don't unless the packet is getting on the older side. Re-hydrating isn't really going to tell the viability of a yeast, only a starter will do that to assess the fermentation. It is always a good idea though as it sort of wakes the yeast up and gets them ready to work.


Other variations are more personal preferences. I to have always mixed the sulfite and sorbate together and added at the same time. Never had an issue with it. I always use Na-Meta instead of K-Meta as it is cheaper and more potent. If you taste a salty taste from the Na-Meta you added to much. Remember to, just cause it says sodium doesn't mean it's salt. Salt is sodium chloride. We are talking sodium metabisulfate. BTW, too much potassium in your life is just as bad as too much sodium. Sodium and potassium are the chemicals that create the electrical impulse that makes your heart beat.


Enough of that though. The videos are fantastic and show that even though the Mosti instructions "appear" much more complicated that really they aren't. There are variations of flexibility with all. There are some tricks of the trade demonstrated that will assist a winemaker at a budget price such as the degassing tip. Yeah, there are better ways but they are more costly.


In all I have to say great post at demonstrating the differences between kits and offering your input on how it works for you. Your observations are pretty spot on.Sounds like you make WE or CC kits. Hope to hear more about your experiences. Edited by: smurfe

 

[sharpstick]

While the Mosti kits aren't much harder I believe the differences are due mainly to different variations of ingredients such as the Bentonite. WE uses a powder form and Mosti uses little pellets. It looks like maggots when re-hydrated. They do dissolve pretty good when stirred after hydrating.

I think the oaking in secondary give more contact time and more balanced flavor than for just a few days in primary.I know many would add extra oak in the secondary with the WE kits. I have not found the need to with any Mosti kit. I personally never have cared for the sawdust oak and would leave it out and use oak cubes to oak.

Enough of that though. The videos are fantastic and show that even though the Mosti instructions "appear" much more complicated that really they aren't. There are variations of flexibility with all.



Sounds like you make WE or CC kits. Hope to hear more about your experiences.

i've seen differences in all company's kit instructions and have followed them or not and the process seems pretty forgiving to variations(both deliberate and otherwise!)
i have to agree on the sawdust, taste aside, that sludge is a real pain to deal with. how about leaving the oak in for the entire time? if i recall, cubes tend to float and could be scooped out and dumped into the secondary.
i've seen bentonite in small pellet form before(can't remember which kits) but it didn't seem to dissipate any better than powder. i trust MM though.
i don't think the MM kits are any more difficult, just different. i've made wine and beer(much more demanding!) and MM instructions seem straightforward and simple enough.
I've made a few WE kits but lately mostly Spagnols kits. ( i found some WE kits were a bit weak and had to be made to less than 6 gallons).
my comments were not meant to be critical of the videos, but just to put
forth my observations in hopes of getting feedback from others on these
points.

 

[smurfe]

Bill, I don't think your post was critical, in fact I loved it and it was very informative. I just wanted to add my interpretation to what you already have observed. It was a great post. I think many are scared of making Mosti kits as they seem "complicated" and I was just adding to your observations that they are indeed no harder to make than any other kit which is actually quite easy. I agree about some of the WE kits. I am a Mosti convert and haven't been disappointed yet. I have never made a Spagnols wine kit though.

 

[grapeman]

Just wanted to state that George was showing the process recommeded by the Mosti not every manufacturer not imply you were being critical.


You wonder why a whole bottle of K-met was added for a sanitizer, here is a picture of the bootle.

2ounces per bottle/gallon


I buy it by the pound. I also find by using glass, the jug seems to hold the strength of the solution better and doesn't break down over time like plastic. If you carefully sniff when you pull the stopper and it makes you gasp, then it is still strong enough.

 

[sharpstick]

Just wanted to state that George was showing the process recommeded by the Mosti not every manufacturer not imply you were being critical.


You wonder why a whole bottle of K-met was added for a sanitizer, here is a picture of the bootle.
2ounces per bottle/gallon


I buy it by the pound. I also find by using glass, the jug seems to hold the strength of the solution better and doesn't break down over time like plastic. If you carefully sniff when you pull the stopper and it makes you gasp, then it is still strong enough.

nobody really said anything. i just wanted to make sure i was not misunderstood.
i will definitely switch to glass for sanitizer and strengthen it. i don't remember where i got that info that i wrote on the jug a couple years ago. i buy it by the pound too, so cost is not really a factor.
i've burned my nostrils several times testing it!

 

[Wade E]

I used a plastic milk carton twice for sanitizer and both times after a month it sprung a leak in the bottom so I stick with glass now. Great job everyone on pointing out the differences and your opinions on them. Anyone who is scared to do a MM kit dont be. Read the instructions and if you have any questions then by all means ask us cause thats why were here but they are pretty straight forward and the end result is a better wine then most other kits.