RJ Spagnols Kit Taste question

[vabeachbear]

I've seen some reference to "kit taste". I am now sampling a few kits that I've made.

Amarone - EP
Super Tuscan - Winery Series
Cab - EP
Zin - Winery Series

All were in the barrell around 3-6 months depending on the first to the last, all were bulk aged out of the barrell for the remainder of time to make a year. All bottled, and I taste a split of each every quarter of the second year, making each aged for a total of 2 years.

In all of them, I get this taste up front, that I can only describe as a little fruity, maybe raspberry note.

Is this normal?
Do others get this?
Does it go away or fade with time?
Does anyone do anything to get rid of it?
Was thinking I could blend it out.

Not really sure yet if its really a bad thing, or something you get used to, just seems to be in each one, and was curious if others have the same experience.

 

[Rocky]

Bear, you have made some very stellar wines there. Good for you in choosing top kits.

I get the same thing in my wines early on and I think it will lessen with more aging. None of my wine stays around that long so I can't be sure. Personally, I like the taste and I even add a can of Blackberry or Red Raspberry fruit bases to the primary when making some of my big reds like Barolo, Cabernet Sauvignon and Super Tuscan.

 

[UBB]

I just bottled up a few different kits.

Winery Series Super Tuscan (15 months)
Winery Series Malbec (15 months)
Showcase Series S. African Pinotage (14 months)

IMO the only one that has what I would describe as a 'kit' taste albeit very slight would be the Pinotage. Of course I've never tried one previously so it just may be the distinct flavor of the grape itself.

 

[robie]

To me, kit taste is more of an off-tasting, chemical taste in the wine. Sort of like the taste one might get eating or drinking an instant version of some food, compared to the non-instant version.


It is just a taste one doesn't expect in a wine. It generally goes away with aging.

 

[HangenOn]

I didn't experience it as a chemical taste so much as odd fruit taste. The best description I could come up with was "fake fruit". It was pretty consistent across different varietals.

The kit taste is the reason I switched to frozen grape must.

 

[robie]

I didn't experience it as a chemical taste so much as odd fruit taste. The best description I could come up with was "fake fruit". It was pretty consistent across different varietals.

The kit taste is the reason I switched to frozen grape must.

I understand. What it comes down to is KT is hard to describe and it is not very pleasant.

 

[DoctorCAD]

If you made the kits exactly as intended, you would know exactly what kit taste is. As it is, you might have a bit of the juice overwhelming the expected grape taste, but what you've done would never be considered standard preparation.

I wish I had barrels to age in...

 

[phillipanth]

Thanks vabeachbear, for your post but what is the price of this kit.

 

[vabeachbear]

Thanks vabeachbear, for your post but what is the price of this kit.

I buy my kits online and usually pay roughly $140 with shipping for the EP kits. Winery series a little cheaper. Was getting the those for $99 plus $25 shipping. Its went up a few bucks.

 

[vabeachbear]

I didn't experience it as a chemical taste so much as odd fruit taste. The best description I could come up with was "fake fruit". It was pretty consistent across different varietals.

The kit taste is the reason I switched to frozen grape must.

You hit it right on the head of what I was talking about. I might have described it wrong, not a chemical taste, I don't have that at all. Its that fake fruit taste.

I have another Amarone in the barrel, and a Super Tuscan and Winexpert Barolo waiting to go in.

The winemaker at my local winery said it might be best to try and blend out at this point. I'm going to get a bottle of something that isn't fruit forward at all (Mouvedre or a cheaper cab maybe) and do a little test with like 10% of the something else.

If this works out, I should only need like 2.5 bottles to blend into the Amarone when I pull it out at the end of the month. Hoping I don't need more than 3 or 4 bottles to blend out.

Wil let you know how it turns out.

 

[wineh]

double bubble

I have heard kit taste described as a bubble gum taste which could be caused by potassium sorbate. After doing a little online research, I decided that Winexpert was putting quite a lot of sorbate in their kits. Even though I couldn't taste it, I upped my sanitation diligence, and quit using sorbate, about two years ago.

 

[Rocky]

Wineh, I have done largely the same thing with k-sorbate. I keep some on hand in the event I want to sweeten something but I normally ferment my wines to very dry and let them go at that. Sorbate is to protect against re-fermentation and I feel if I get wines down to SG 0.992 or so, there is little to no danger of this occurring.

 

[HangenOn]

I took the same approach as Rocky and did not add the Potassium Sorbate since the wine was dry. The fake fruit taste was still there. I don't think the Sorbate is the source of the Kit Taste.

 

[vabeachbear]

I agree its not the source as I have never used any in my wine. In fact I have never used any of the chems that come with the wine other than the Kmeta. I don't clear them as I let them bulk age for a year, I let them clear naturally over time and siphon off the lees.

Thinking about it, as I never clear the wine with additives, I wonder if there is a clearing agent out there that strips a little of the front end off the wine. I have no issue at all with the body or the finish. I'll ask my local wine PHD.

As I said, I'm also going to experiment with blending to see what I get and I'll post results.

 

[vabeachbear]

Interesting thing. Last night I moved out my Amarone from this year out of the barrel. It had bulk aged for 4 months, and barrel aged for 4.5 months.
It has lost most all of the "fake fruit" taste.

I put the Super Tuscan in the barrel, and it still has the taste. It will be interesting to see how it does over the next 4 or 5 months in the barrel.

I will bulk age the Amarone another 3 months until I bottle. Will see how it goes if I need to blend in something to help with the taste. As it is now though, it is mostly gone and if I do blend it out, it shouldn't take as much other wine.

Happier today

 

[vabeachbear]

Just an update on the "taste".

I tasted my next split of EP Cab (barrel aged 5 months, bulk aged 7 months, so far 7 months in bottle), and the Kit taste, upfront fake fruit taste is completely gone.

It had it back in April when i tasted it but now it is completely gone. I'm pysched because most of my first batches are coming up on the 2 yrs of ageing, and I haven't touched a single one other than the spilts I use for tasting.

 

[vernsgal]

I'm pysched because most of my first batches are coming up on the 2 yrs of ageing, and I haven't touched a single one other than the spilts I use for tasting.

That's will power! I bet they'll all taste great at that age.

 

[adambaum]

I can't say what causes KT, but I notice a similar unpleasant taste/smell in my reds when I add the Sorbate. Takes about 18 months to go away. Listening to others, I stopped adding Sorbate and I don't notice that particular unpleasantness anymore. I think what I taste/smell without the Sorbate is just a young wine.

Adam