Kit Instructions Not Best Practice...

[bkisel]

Hi,

I've got two kits bottled and two in the making. I've used three different set of instructions from two different vendors. In each case the instructions had me going to the stabilizing/degassing/fining step after reaching a specific SG or less. None of the instructions say to take the SG over a course of 2-3 days without a change - which I believe is considered best practice. Correct? There doesn't seem to be a concern that you're taking multiple SG test to see when you hit the SG they want you to hit before moving to the next step so why not keep measuring until SG stops dropping over 2-3 days.

Thanks...

 

[Code]

I'm a newbie myself but as a general rule with most instructions, just use them to guide you in the right direction. Usually they're good but they're written under the expectations of certain environment. So just find happy medium

I claim to be no expert just my general advice and opinion based on my own newbie experience.

 

[bkisel]

The kit instructions were gospel until I got to this site.

 

[cimbaliw]

Pretty new here myself but with the Winexpert kits I've made we haven't fermented to dry in the primary. Rather, racking into a carboy and allowing fermentation to finish in a lower O2 environment. Somewhere, I read the rational for this but it escapes me now. Kits are a different animal than traditional wine making so I tend to follow the directions up until bottling. Then it's off for a bit of bulk aging.

BC

 

[wood1954]

I'm definitely not an expert, but, The best kits I've made I followed to the letter. When I've deviated I've usually made a fixable mistake. I have airtight primary fermentation buckets tho and leave the must in there for about a week under airlock after it reaches around .994, then rack off of the gross lees and add SO2. I don't add Pot.sorbate unless i backsweeten and then i wait for a while until it seems there really is no fermentation of any kind, esp. malic acid fermentation. Point in case is the Pinot Grigio i have aging now. I screwed up the acid balance before i started bulk aging and now it's kind of fixed, but it appears to be undergoing malic fermentation now.

 

[robie]

The kit instructions are based on the kit warranty. They are having to guaranty the kit will be a success, so their instructions and the chemicals/yeast used are fairly foolproof.

That said they are assuming the wine maker is inexperienced.

Once a person gets some kits under his/her belt and learns a little more about wine making, some deviations are worthwhile, especially the one allowing the wine to set an extra couple months before bottling.

Fermenting in an airtight fermenter is safe, in that there certainly is not a chance of the wine oxidizing. It is not going to produce the best fermentation results. Yeast, at one stage, need air, at a later stage, not so. One can get by with this a little easier with white wines.

It goes back to - it is safe, it works every time, but it is not "best practice".

 

[dangerdave]

The 14th Dalai Lama said, "Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively."

I learned how to make wine by following the instructions for making kits. I learned to make better wine by ignoring them completely. <instructions>

 

[TommBomb]

Just a question while on this topic. How many of you kit wine makers age your stabilized wine in carboys rather than bottling right away after like the instructions say? And how long do u age it in the carboy for? Is aging it for say 6-12 months in a carboy before bottling a benefit for the wine?

 

[dangerdave]

I have not made a wine that did not benefit from aging. There are different schools of thought regarding bottle or carboy (bulk) aging. Bulk aging, IMO, holds the most benefit, as you can tweak the wine along the way if needed. Bottling is rather final.

Some folks bulk age for years! Just remember that every 3-4 months, you need to add a small amount of k-meta (1/8 tsp) to keep it well preserved.

 

[bkisel]

Just a question while on this topic. How many of you kit wine makers age your stabilized wine in carboys rather than bottling right away after like the instructions say? And how long do u age it in the carboy for? Is aging it for say 6-12 months in a carboy before bottling a benefit for the wine?

What I'm going to do now largely because of what I've learned here is to rack to a clean carboy when the kit instructions say to bottle. Bulk age for several months (likely 3) then bottle. I'll likely allow about a month in the bottle before I start drinking.

In reading the above post I think I've now got to educate myself on this K-Meta stuff and figure whether or not I need to add some to the batch of wine before bottling.

 

[jswordy]

Just a question while on this topic. How many of you kit wine makers age your stabilized wine in carboys rather than bottling right away after like the instructions say? And how long do u age it in the carboy for? Is aging it for say 6-12 months in a carboy before bottling a benefit for the wine?

Really good question with many answers, I am sure.

Researchers at UC-Davis have empirically proven that there is a difference in wine made from fruit or grapes between bulk aging and bottle aging, to the extent that they treat the two as separate events. Most wineries making finer wines do, too.

Personally, I am not sure that difference exists with the kit wines I have done (all of which have been mid-grade). Here, it appears to me that bulk aging and bottle aging are the same things, provided that the bottles are all stored in similar conditions.

So carboy aging kit wines is a matter of convenience for me. It means I can procrastinate on bottling by instead loftily declaring that I am "bulk aging." There are benefits to keeping kit wines in big bottles instead of small ones, but they all accrue to storage, in my experience.

OK, all that said, the kit makers are intent on getting you to drinkable wine in 28 days. If you keep that 28-day wine 6 months or better yet a year, in carboy or bottles, it is going to dramatically improve -- the same way aging improves wines made from fruit. It's just that the fruit wines can have a two-stage aging process that seems to be lacking in the kits I have done. I've not done a juice bucket, so perhaps those too have two-stage aging, I don't know. But in the kits I have done, it seems to have something to do with the processing of the juice to meet the 28-day goal.

This is all from my own experience - Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV).

 

[GaDawg]

If one bottles at instead of bulk ageing and plans to start drinking within say 6 mo. is K-Meta necessary? It's not in the instructions and it's not included in the kits. So if it is desirable, how much, will 1/8 tsp. do or does one have to use 1/4 tsp?

 

[cpfan]

If one bottles at instead of bulk ageing and plans to start drinking within say 6 mo. is K-Meta necessary? It's not in the instructions and it's not included in the kits. So if it is desirable, how much, will 1/8 tsp. do or does one have to use 1/4 tsp?

It is mentioned in some of the instructions. Just looked at Vineco's KenRidge Showcase instructions and 1/4 tsp was suggested. Similarly, the Winexpert LE instructions from a couple of years ago mention 1/4 tsp. And the RJ Spagnols instructions for Cru Select from 2006 mention 1/4tsp.

Which kit are you making, and have you read the instructions closely?

Steve

 

[bkisel]

If one bottles at instead of bulk ageing and plans to start drinking within say 6 mo. is K-Meta necessary? It's not in the instructions and it's not included in the kits. So if it is desirable, how much, will 1/8 tsp. do or does one have to use 1/4 tsp?

New guy to this stuff so can't tell you from experience but perhaps this info will help... On the label of my powdered Potassium Sorbate bottle is says that 1/8 tsp. per gallon = approx. 100 ppm of SO2.

 

[cpfan]

New guy to this stuff so can't tell you from experience but perhaps this info will help... On the label of my powdered Potassium Sorbate bottle is says that 1/8 tsp. per gallon = approx. 100 ppm of SO2.

Sorbate does not provide SO2, that's metabisufite's job.

Steve

 

[GaDawg]

Steve, Maybe I was not clear. My question was not if the kits had you add K-Mets but when. The RJS Winery Series says to add "Pak. #2A Sulphite before degassing "Day 28", but not at bottling! "Day 42". If you have added K-Mets on "Day 28" is it necessary to add more on bottling day?

http://www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/assets/images/products/media/27194 CCWinery_FR & Eng InstSht11.pdf

 

[ibglowin]

No the supplied package is all you need.

 

[GaDawg]

Thank you Mike!

 

[bkisel]

Sorbate does not provide SO2, that's metabisufite's job.

Steve

Thanks for the correction. New guy to wine making and to this forum and perhaps to anxious to make a contribution. I need to do more reading and less posting. I do seem to keep getting confused between potassium metabisulfite and potassium sorbate.

Bill

 

[ibglowin]

I have bulk aged red wines in a carboy out to 6 months and then tested the SO2 levels. The SO2 was fine. This all depends of course on the pH of the wine but this just goes to show you how far out you can safely bulk age with just the supplied Sulfite package. A white wine I would hit it with a small dose at bottling (1/8 to 1/4) tsp if you bulk age out to three months. If you bottle at 42 days or whatever the instructions say (no bulk aging) the supplied sulfite pack will cover you under normal conditions.