How do I make sparklin elderflower wine of the right strength?

[Autolycus]

Hi, I usually only make elderflower and blackberry wines, and I always let them ferment fully before bottling...partly because I had no suitable bottles for anything else, partly to get drunk without going to the toilet as much.
But, now I'd like to make some sparkling elderflower wine somewhere between 9% and 12% alcohol by volume.
I have absolutely no idea how to use a gravitomiter, but I don't think I can for this batch anyway, as I started fermenting it last night and it's been bubbling merrily away for hours.
I was wondering...Can I just taste the wine to get an idea of it's strength, then stop fermentation just before it's where I want it, then just bottle it just before the fermentation stops? Or do I need to stop fermentation and then add a little more yeast before bottling? Cus that doesn't sound right to me somehow.

Also...My last batch has a fairly strong burnt/bitter taste. I tasted a bit of citric acid and a bit of tannin, and I'm pretty sure I was too generous with the tannin. The size of my teaspoons varies wildly! The wine has already been stabilised, fined, filtered and bottled, so I know there's not much I can do, but will the bitterness reduce over time? I mean, this stuff was literally bottled yesterday...what exactly does aging DO to the flavour, anyway?

 

[salcoco]

sparkling wine is done as a second fermentation in a champagne style bottle due to the pressured developed. it is not done by bottling fermenting wine. I would suggest researching the making of sparkling wine as it is an extensive process to long to describe in this post. just Google making sparkling wine.

Your other wines are bitter possibly because of too munch tannin. Elderberry is especially high in tannin. in future after fermentation and wine is stable and clear use gelatin to reduce the tannins. wine previously bottled will have there tannins drop out but it make take two to three years. the burnt taste is sometimes to much so2, citric acid to much acid blend. buy a set of measuring spoons from a household kitchen store and use these all of the time for your measurements. a more specific method is using a gram scale.

 

[Autolycus]

I have a digital scale, but the recipe I was following called for teaspoons. This next batch, I've used WAY less and scraped the spoons dead level, so I can easily re-create the amount and weigh it for future reference.

Anyway, I'll look into the process.. Thanks

Edit: Ah, yes, that does look pretty involved. Though the method for making "country champagne" seems pretty straightforward. I think I'll give that a go.

 

[seth8530]

How old was the wine when you tasted it? What kind of bottles are you putting the wine into? I would HIGHLY recommend you learn how to use a hydrometer. If you want help from others or if you want to have even the smallest chance of being able to re-create something you have done, you really need to use one.

Not only that, but it allows you to calculate abv, and even have some kind of idea of the residual sugar left in the wine. All very important things to know when making wine.

In addition, I think the device you meant to refer to was a hydrometer and not a gravitiometer. Even though, if done cleverly, you could use a hydrometer to measure the gravitational field in a location.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Elderflower not elderberry, how much tannins to elderflowers have? WVMJ

sparkling wine is done as a second fermentation in a champagne style bottle due to the pressured developed. it is not done by bottling fermenting wine. I would suggest researching the making of sparkling wine as it is an extensive process to long to describe in this post. just Google making sparkling wine.

Your other wines are bitter possibly because of too munch tannin. Elderberry is especially high in tannin. in future after fermentation and wine is stable and clear use gelatin to reduce the tannins. wine previously bottled will have there tannins drop out but it make take two to three years. the burnt taste is sometimes to much so2, citric acid to much acid blend. buy a set of measuring spoons from a household kitchen store and use these all of the time for your measurements. a more specific method is using a gram scale.

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi Autolycus - and welcome. What was your recipe? That will give us an idea of the starting gravity and the finishing gravity (if you know what yeast you used).

 

[sour_grapes]

Even though, if done cleverly, you could use a hydrometer to measure the gravitational field in a location.

What do you have in mind, Seth? Off hand, I think Einstein's Equivalence Principle would render that impossible.

Anyway, welcome Autolcyus. And note that the probabilities of a home winemaker "stopping fermentation" at desired point are very scant.

 

[Autolycus]

I just followed THIS recipe, pretty much for that first batch http://www.farminmypocket.co.uk/featured/elderflower-wine-recipe Except I used dried elderflowers (at the amount specified) And used tannin instead of black tea. I just followed the amount suggested on the tub the tannin was in, but Like I said, I think my idea of a level teaspoon might be different to theirs. I tasted it after clearing and stabilizing it. Not so much to assess the flavour, but to get an idea of the alcohol content. I think it was actually pretty close to fully fermented when I did this. I added a load of sugar and it tastes okay now, but it's not in suitable bottles for if fermentation starts again. I'll have to keep an eye on them and open them every day I guess. Still, it was a small batch. Just a trial run. I have 5 gallons of the adjusted recipe fermenting now.
Anyway...I've made adjustments with the latest batch - WAY less tannin, a bit more citric acid and less sultanas and it's looking much better. It think I'm just going to brew it to full strength and bottle it. It's so much simpler that way. Or I might do a batch and just get a secondary fermentation going in the bottle and put up with a bit of sediment.

 

[seth8530]

What do you have in mind, Seth? Off hand, I think Einstein's Equivalence Principle would render that impossible.

Anyway, welcome Autolcyus. And note that the probabilities of a home winemaker "stopping fermentation" at desired point are very scant.

I was just thinking of using a simple force balance and using the fact that the density of water is nearly 1 and then use the scale on the hydrometer to solve for the.buoyant force balance and thus gravity.

 

[sour_grapes]

I was just thinking of using a simple force balance and using the fact that the density of water is nearly 1 and then use the scale on the hydrometer to solve for the.buoyant force balance and thus gravity.

But the buoyant force is the result of the acceleration due to gravity on the water. The force exerted on the floating object by the water is equal to (the volume of fluid displaced)*(the density of the fluid)*(acceleration due to gravity). On the other hand, the force exerted by gravity on the floating object is equal to (its mass)*(acceleration due to gravity). The object is at rest when these forces cancel. Since they are both proportional to gravity's acceleration, they will always cancel at the same volume (for a given density of liquid).

I mean, a hydrometer would float at the same level in water both on the moon and here on Earth (or in a centrifuge, for that matter).

 

[seth8530]

Hmm, looks like you got me on that one lol.. Now off to my next creative plans for hydrometers lol.