Grrrr... Sorbate not working

[AndyL]

G'day all,

Long time no talk Having some trouble with a batch...

It's a Apple wine - 2 5g pails of apples (green ? tree in backyard; Diced, pureed, frozen, followed one of the recipes here, sweetened with honey. Lalvin 11116... Everything went well during making/primary/secondary...

Fermented dry, typical sorbate/kmeta let it sit for a good month... Gave it a test - weak on the flavor - so we added a bunch of concentrated apple juice... Fermentation restarts... Add more sorbate/sulfite - Fermentation continues... Let it run out; Sorbate/sulfite again... Add some more concentrate - Fermentation restarts...

What the heck is going on? Third try of sorbate was with new stuff, original I know still works (Just used it on skeeterpee - worked just fine). I'm hesitant to add more chemicals at this point; and ruin the wine completely... But it still will need backsweetening...

I'm confused, doing nothing different - yet the fermentation wont stop... What the heck am I missing?

Thanks in advance,

 

[Tom]

U say it went dry? What was the gravity?

U say U added meta and sorbate? How much?

Did you degas?

Whats the gravity now?

 

[AndyL]

U say it went dry? What was the gravity?

U say U added meta and sorbate? How much?

Did you degas?

Whats the gravity now?

Went dry to 097;

Went 6.25g sorbate (23L); 1tsp Kmeta - about the same as every other run...

Degassed with the drill attachment, and follow up with vacuum.

Gravity now is 1.10 - but back into very active fermentation...

 

[Wade E]

I agree with Tom as we need the numbers but if the numbers are good the sorbate is bad!!!

 

[Wade E]

You snook that post in right before me, looks like the life of that sorbate is done and although I have yet to see a date on sorbate.

 

[AndyL]

Nah both batches of sorbate are still working fine in other wines... Like I said - bought a second batch from a different (higher volume) store to make sure...

First two doses, off an albeit older batch; but worked fine in SP.

Third came from fresh stuff... From a store I know has a huge turnover of products...

I'd doubt it's the sulfite, but it is over a year old (just bought a kg as I use enough of it).

 

[Wade E]

Ive had this same problem in Plum wine so I feel your pain. There must be something scientific about it not working in some batches and works good in others.

 

[AndyL]

Anything I can do to stop fermenting - wanted to backsweeten with honey... I guess at some point the yeast will die off due to alcohol concentration... But I wasn't going for a strong apple cider

One of the local wine shops suggested backsweetening with lactose or splenda (ala beer making) but still having issues with the fact that the flavor is still pretty weak; so there was more apple concentrate planned (which of course will add a ton more sugar).

 

[Wade E]

Not really!!! Dont bother adding sulfite and sorbate to a wine that is fermenting as stopping a fermentation in progress is near impossible with the ecxeption of cold crashing it. in doing that though without havin g a way to sterile filter it it can and will most likely start back up fermenting when you dont want it to like in the bottle later.

 

[Runningwolf]

Andy just curious as I never had this happen. Is there any sediment in the carboys at all. I know you said you degassed it once already but if you hit it with the drill attachment now, do you still get gas?

 

[djrockinsteve]

You said you gave it a month then backsweetened, is this correct? You obviously still have yeast lingering and the sorbate may be good or bad but those that are surviving will continue to eat.

You really need more aging time to kill off yeast from lack of nutrients and food.

 

[mmadmikes1]

I had a batch of Riesling do the same thing ended up just waiting it out. At this point you have more than enough sorbate, don't ever add any more to this wine. I am not a big sorbate fan but to much is bad. The wine was never really dry, and every time you added fruit or sweeting it continued the fermentation. Like wade said, it is almost impossible to stop an active fermentation as you have found out.

 

[Arne]

Seems like apple tends to have this problem. I have had apple do the same thing and if you look back thru old posts quite a few others have had it happen too. You are lucky, you have found it before you bottle. When you find out afterwards, you can start looking for the wild corks that came out of the bottles. Still have not found one of them. Arne.

 

[Runningwolf]

Arne's right. I had one bottle of Apple out of 36 blow a cork. No rhyme or reason why this one bottle would blow.

 

[AndyL]

Yeah, didn't want to add any more sorbate/sulfite... Guess we'll just add more concentrate; and let her ferment away... What's a little more ABV between friends? Guess I'll plan to backsweeten with splenda - save myself any further headache...

Should have searched yup Snagged the recipe from here, should have searched a little more I guess... Wonder what the difference is between fresh apples vs the concentrate versions - that causes the sorbate not to work right...

 

[Runningwolf]

Andy I think Wade said he has the same problem with plum. I used fresh apple cider.

 

[james3838]

Had the same thing happen to my first batch of apple...corks a poppin.
I had my current mulberry start back up as well after I added sorbate and kmeta but it was a very light fermintation so I stuck it in the fridge in the shop. I keep that fridge cold enough that the beer will get just a few ice crystals and after a day or 2, the fermination looked to be stopped but I still have it in there just in case. This is the first tiem I have tried this but it seems to be working so far. How long should it stay in the cold before your safe?

 

[Arne]

I think you best keep it in there til you drink it. When it warms back up it will likely start refermenting. Sometimes it takes quite a while, then you get a suprise. Only ways I have found to stop the ferment is get the alcohol high enought that it kills the yeast, or let it go dry, then sulfite and sorbate. Arne.

 

[mmadmikes1]

Andy, the sorbate will work when the wine is finished fermentation. Just because you think it should be done doesn't mean it was. You will not stop an active fermentation with sorbate and K-Meta, It will only prevent a new start up.