Green Mist Vineyard - The OFFICIAL Startup Thread

[TimTheWiner]

Great, I didn't realize Double A sold it. On a plus side, maybe instead of doing all VSP, maybe I should do some top wire/umbrella training varietals as well this way I'll have experience with both types of training. Might be a little weird, but the whole idea behind this project is to learn as much as possible and try things hands on, so maybe I'll change it up a bit.

 

[ibglowin]

The guys at Double A are fantastic. Talk with them. You will be glad you did in the end.

 

[TimTheWiner]

The more immediate issue is addressing the dozens of small to medium boulders I think we are going to encounter. Double A recommends an 18" deep by 18" wide hole per vine so I think I should try to rid the site of rocks up to that depth which will be a huge undertaking. I can get a bobcat for a few hundred (ugh) but not sure if I could do it all in one day, probably take a few.

 

[ibglowin]

Trust me, you don't need 18x18! Its great if you can but don't sweat it. I guarantee those vines will grow just fine in a whole lot less (mine are!). I am growing in not too much more than volcanic rock (more like boulders really) The main thing is to get the whole as close to that if you can (perhaps rent a post hole digger, not a hand one) and back fill with some good organic material. Then keep them watered and fertilized well the first year or so. Those roots will find their way down and through whatever they want to over time.

 

[TimTheWiner]

So, the groundbreaking should begin next weekend. Will have all 10 rows dug out with backhoe to about 18"-24" to remove boulders and make spring trellising and planting much easier. In the meantime, my father decided it was a good time to whack a few trees that were casting some afternoon shade on the last couple rows. 5 down, about 5 more to go. The shading in the aerial pic makes it look a bit worse than I feel it is. Quite a bit of sunlight on the field, but this will allow an extra 1.5ish hours of sunlight in late afternoon. You can see the location of the sun with this neat tool.

You can see a bit of the area opened up to the upper middle of the picture.

A FULL days work (7 hours of breaking my back), but it will all be worth it.

A few more trees notched. They are black birch that are reaching real high and blocking some afternoon sun. Removing three spruce as well.

My dad hard at work cutting everything up as I hauled the brush off to the woods and load up the truck.

 

[blumentopferde]

Hey! Great to see your progress and your hands-on aproach!
I'm planning to do the same in a year or two, so its very motivating to see that there are other people out there who just get it on!

Even though I am also new to winemaking I might have some advice for you:
It is recommended to have a spacing between the rows that equals the height of the greenery. So for good insolation the same rule should apply to the spacing between trees and vines on the west and east side: Your vines should be planted in a distance that equals the height of the surrounding trees.
For the trees on the south you could just have a look at the sun elevation: What is the elevation of the sun at noon, at the time of harvest? let's say it's 45° - then the distance between the trees and vines should be as high as the height of the trees for good insolation. Any vine planted closer to the trees won't be fully exposed during the whole growing season.

Of course this would leave - if at all - only a tiny spot on your property which is fully exposed to the sun but you want to cultivate the full property.

So I would suggest you to do some zoning:
You have a small fully exposed zone, and the closer you get to the trees, the less sun exposure you have.
With this knowledge you could create some "climate zones". Vines with the highest climatic demands will be planted in the fully exposed zone. Wines with lower demands in the border areas. And then there are areas that practically don't get any direct sunlight at all (southern border areas) where you should plant grapes with low light demands (definitely no red grapes!)

Here's a quickly drawn example of what I'm talking about:

greets, blumentopferde

 

[TimTheWiner]

Excellent suggestion and the image helps. I have really change my initial plans of only planting Cab Franc and Riesling to now include Cayuga, Seyval Blanc, Marquette, NY95, Vignoles and Traminette. This variety will help me understand a variety of training systems and various varietal demands. Hoping to order my vines tomorrow.

 

[blumentopferde]

Cabernet franc is definitely the candidate for the best lit areas. As far as I know Riesling grapes don't like direct exposure to the sun, and apart from that they are very hardy, but ripe very late. Maybe a good candidate for the northwest border zones? Seyval Blanc ripes very early, so maybe a good candidate for the southern border areas. The other grapes I don't know but they will surely find their place...
Are you going to plant the full property at once or will you do it step-by-step?

 

[TimTheWiner]

I am planning on planting in one shot when I receive the vines from Double A in April. Right now it's the more southern and western borders that are shaded, although some of the tree removal will help a bit. Still have to plan irrigation before next year as well.

 

[blumentopferde]

Right now it's the more southern and western borders that are shaded, although some of the tree removal will help a bit.

I can see from the satellite image that you have much less and smaller trees at the eastern border of the property and a street between your property and the forest. So yes, obviously east must be the sunnier side.
In Germany Riesling is only planted on the best and sunniest sites, but the climate in your location seems to be much warmer and milder than the german climate, so I think you don't need to grow these vines on the best locations. Especially because Riesling tends to taste untypical, when grown in too hot climate.

Still have to plan irrigation before next year as well.

For me as a European it is funny that irrigation is such a big topic here. I've googled the climate of Lisbon, CT and with 70 inches of precipitation per year I would regard it as very wet! Where I live there is just half of the precipitation per year and it is very uncommon to use irrigation in a vineyard, the same applies for other traditional wine growing areas which have only a third or even less of this precipitation per year.
Are the summers in Lisbon so dry and hot, that it would be too risky to leave the vines unirrigated?

 

[grapeman]

I agree with bluementoferdeabout the irrigation needs. With that much rainfall, you would only need to water a very small amount in the year of establishment unless the site is pure gravel with no water retention capacity.

We planted 4 acres of vines in early June this year and did no watering. The vines were tiny transplants started from cuttings 2 months or less earlier. We had 2 inches of rain in June, 1.5 inches in July and .40 inches in August- so it was very dry. How did the young vines fare? They are mostly 4-8 feet tall, depending on the variety.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Ground breaking this morning. Got 5 rows (of 10) dug out with rocks removed. Decided to do every other row for now since there wasn't enough space between each for the backhoe to fit. I am going to put 1/2 the lime needed in the bottom of each row, then fill the dirt back in, then apply the other 1/2 of the required lime on top as well as tri-phosphate and Potassium ammendment, then till it all together. I still need to call Double A's viticulturalist Monday since Uconn recommends 50 lb/1000 sq ft of lime for American grapes and 120 lb/1000 sq ft for European vinifera. I am planting mostly European, but a few native varietals as well. Downside is I should've limed TODAY before the rain showers came, now I have to wait til the next rain. Progress at least.

 

[bigdrums2]

Looks great and good luck. Are you going to let the bed sit over winter?

 

[TimTheWiner]

I'm not really sure what to do once the soil amendments are in place. I don't know if I can leave it bare soil or if I should plant something like winter rye as a cover crop?
Btw, that's not me in the backhoe, I'm 27 hehe. A relative.

 

[grapeman]

So where are the boulders you keep talking about? Those are just normal stones and we just plant around them............. hehehehehehe

 

[TimTheWiner]

Well to be honest, my dad and I both thought there would be many more. There were about 10 that we wouldn't have been able to remove manually. A lot of the pics don't do much justice to their actual size as well. Now I'm gonna end up having to buy X yards of top soil to fill in. Stinks.

 

[bigdrums2]

You can leave it bare soil and it will be fine. Otherwise I recommend doing something like rye or clover.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Well I was super busy the last 3 months and never took the time to update this thread. I was spending 3-6 hours a day with my dad prepping the site, soil, and removing trees all of September and October, until the weather turned early November. Unfortunately I did not have a chance to plant a cover crop, but I am not overly worried about it. All rocks have been removed to a depth of 2 feet (although small stones were kept to aid in soil drainage). Limestone, bonemeal, and potash have been added accordingly to aid in soil conditions. I did pick up 48 cedar posts, but did not have time to get them in the ground before the freeze set in. Therefore, I will have to get in high gear to try and get this done before the vines arrive mid-April. Here are some pics of the last couple months progress with a couple video clips as well. Enjoy!

09/15/2012
Dad backfilling a row

Electric company removing trees that were entangled in power lines (should give an extra 20-30 min of morning sun)

This mini excavator was great for the job, while the big backhoe worked on tree removing and moving heavy boulders

10/01/2012

Dad back-filling row number 8

10/13/2012

48 Cedar posts for trellis

10/17/2012

All 10 rows back filled (soil minus rocks)

10/27/2012

Lime in place and tilling it in, grandma helping out too

Me spreading bonemeal and potash on top after tilling in the lime

Everybody hard at work the last few days, large equipment hauling away rocks, myself tilling, my dogs removing more trees, and grandma moving smaller rocks and debris

Halfway done

11/04/2012

Winter in the air, a cold crisp day. All is DONE (for now)

Thanks to my dad's hard work, we have eliminated over 10 trees and over 20 feet to the field which should remove afternoon shade and add at least an hour of afternoon sunlight

Our final pile of rocks removes, may not look like much but equates to about a tri-axle load. Over 70 wheelbarrow loads (FULL) plus 7+ backhoe dumps (large bucket).

Sideview of the completed site. Now for trellising and planting in the spring

Here is a good video of the field work about half way through
http://www.youtube.com/embed/FEwV0WqAVu8

Video clip of last few days of site prep and rock removal
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miRRYv23wzg[/ame]

 

[grapeman]

Thanks for the update. It looks great after all that work you did and should give you a great spot for your vineyard. That was a lot of work as you are sure of right now! Best of luck to you and the family in realizing your dreams with this.

 

[M1wino]

Looks like a great start! Keep us posted