Frozen Chilean Juice

[Wild Duk]

I have a lhbs where I can get frozen Chilean juice around may. I'm assuming that they are probably getting this from the same places that most others on this site gets their juice. How does this compare to high end kits??? I see that there are no skins with these juice buckets, and want my wine to have good body and tannins. May order a cab....

Thx

 

[Bartman]

I plan on getting one of the Mosti Chile Fresco buckets from FVW, having done them a couple times now. I would say Mosti's juice buckets are as good as the high end kits, and even better than those if you add a grape pack. The juice is balanced and inoculated so all you have to do is bring it to room temperature and its off to the races! I have made the Carmenere (2009) and Cabernet Sauv. (last year). I haven't bottled the Cab yet, but am close to it. The Carmenere was very good, until it was gone! It was easily the best batch I had made before using fresh grapes, and on par with the Red Mt. Cab.

The frozen juice buckets are probably the easiest form of winemaking I have done - it is even easier than the Alljuice kits because you don't even add yeast! You do have options to do MLF and use whatever oak you like, so that's somewhat liberating. You just need patience, since it will benefit from aging like fresh grapes.

 

[Momdrann]

Hello all, I have been making wine from frozen juice buckets for 4 years now -Chilean in may and Italian in October I have a background in chemistry, so I like to tinker! I actually kill the yeast in the bucket, adjust acid level, and then pitch my own yeast. I have been very happy with the results for my Italian Frascati, which just won a bronze at an amateur wine competition, but disappointed in the heaviness of my Chilean reds. I don't want to make wine from grapes because I don't have space for equipment . I have tried to
Buy grape skin packs, but they don't seem available. Has anyone made their own. And how do you do it?
Best

 

[PCharles]

I recalled that the Wine Makers Toy Store carried grape packs. I checked their site and found the item listed, but when I clicked on it the page came up blank. I gave them a call and apparently their supplier has discontinued providing the product. The folks there at the toy store where very friendly and informative, suggesting that skins or raisines were not essential and that the juice alone made very good wine. At this point I'll just be adding oak and a bit of grape tannin.

 

[shoebiedoo]

Hello all, I have been making wine from frozen juice buckets for 4 years now -Chilean in may and Italian in October I have a background in chemistry, so I like to tinker! I actually kill the yeast in the bucket, adjust acid level, and then pitch my own yeast. I have been very happy with the results for my Italian Frascati, which just won a bronze at an amateur wine competition, but disappointed in the heaviness of my Chilean reds. I don't want to make wine from grapes because I don't have space for equipment . I have tried to
Buy grape skin packs, but they don't seem available. Has anyone made their own. And how do you do it?
Best

What's the best way to kill the yeast in these buckets? I wanted to do that the last time around but really didn't know how?

 

[robie]

Hello all, I have been making wine from frozen juice buckets for 4 years now -Chilean in may and Italian in October I have a background in chemistry, so I like to tinker! I actually kill the yeast in the bucket, adjust acid level, and then pitch my own yeast. I have been very happy with the results for my Italian Frascati, which just won a bronze at an amateur wine competition, but disappointed in the heaviness of my Chilean reds. I don't want to make wine from grapes because I don't have space for equipment . I have tried to
Buy grape skin packs, but they don't seem available. Has anyone made their own. And how do you do it?
Best

Hi Momdrann and welcome to the forum.
How are you killing the already pitched yeast and what are you doing to insure they are not fermenting your wine?

 

[robie]

I just noticed that Momdrann has made only one post and that was 2 weeks ago, so I'll assume he/she is not available.

I don't know how one would kill the already pitched yeast. Kmeta doesn't really kill them, it just stuns them and slows them down for a short time, depending on the dose.

One could stun the yeast, wait a few days, then pitch some other yeast. This likely would not work either. Both strains would recover from the Kmeta and then have to fight it out for the right to ferment.

Some yeast strains can co-exist and ferment together. Some strains will fight it out and the stronger will win out completely. One has to take this strain-by-strain to determine what the result may be.

Depending on which strain was originally pitched, they might win out and do the fermentation anyway, if they are a dominant strain.

Temperature has a bearing, too. If you keep the fermentation cool and the original yeast likes it warmer; and you pitch a cold temp strain, the cold temp strain might win this battle. The opposite might be true with higher temp strains.

Maybe stun the yeast with Kmeta, add an amount of alcohol that would kill the yeast, then create a yeast starter with new yeast and slowly acclimate them, so they, too, would not die of shock. Don't know how much alcohol that would take or how effective this really would be.

I am out of ideas. If anyone else has any ideas, I'd like to hear them. I am certainly not an expert on the subject.

 

[Rocky]

I would be interested to know how she does it, too. I can think of a couple ways and they would be bery ponderous to do but should work. One could heat the juice to about 140 F for a period of time and that should kill off the yeast. Or one could add alcohol, kill he yeast and then warm the juice to about 170 F to drive off the alcohol.

I plan to try to make my own grape packs in the Fall when Cabernet Sauvignon is available. I was just going to de-stem them, mash them and cook them down to about 1/2 to 1/3 the original volume and vacuum pack them. I am undecided as to whether or not to add K-meta. What do you all think?

 

[robie]

I would be interested to know how she does it, too. I can think of a couple ways and they would be bery ponderous to do but should work. One could heat the juice to about 140 F for a period of time and that should kill off the yeast. Or one could add alcohol, kill he yeast and then warm the juice to about 170 F to drive off the alcohol.

I plan to try to make my own grape packs in the Fall when Cabernet Sauvignon is available. I was just going to de-stem them, mash them and cook them down to about 1/2 to 1/3 the original volume and vacuum pack them. I am undecided as to whether or not to add K-meta. What do you all think?

I think DJSteve, Julie, Tom, and some others have made F packs before. They will chime in soon. I have never made one.

I would freeze those grape packs.

I wonder if some of those extremes would really be worth it. Here's an idea-

Rehydrate 2 or 3 packets of one's preferred yeast and make a good health starter and let it multiply for about 24 hours. Let the must temperature get up to desired point, then dump in that starter. make that temperature on the low side. The original yeast would only be beginning to wake up by then. The overwhelming number of the preferred yeast just might take over.

If not, not much lost except 3 packets of yeast.

 

[SBWs]

I've been wondering if I take red table grapes and use my steam juicer to extract the juice to drink and then freeze the skins left over if they would work for a skin pac, what do you all think about this??? I'm still kicking myself as I steamed juiced some concord grapes last year and tossed the skins in the trash. What was I thinking!

 

[Momdrann]

Hello all, busy with income taxes so kind of dropped ball on wine forum after reading some of the comments to my original post I realize that I may be exaggerating my ability to kill the yeast it comes with. I pick up the buckets as soon as they come in and are very cold, sometimes almost frozen. I then add the potassium metabisulphite immediately, and I wait about 30hours to add my yeast which I "proof" in warm water with yeast nutrient for 10 minutes before I add it to the bucket- you can see it fermenting like when making bread! One time I was forced to add my yeast in less than 24hours as I had to go out of town and after 5 days nothing was happening -which is why I felt I was actually killing all the yeast -not just stunning it. There have been other times when it had already started and all I did was slow it down. But even in those situations, where obviously it was a mixture of yeast cultures I was happy with the end result and the fermentation went to SG of 0.992 or better.
I am planning on trying Rockys wine skin idea with this years Chilean Zinfandel juice and Cabernet grapes, which are due to arrive in 3 weeks!

Best to all and will try to check back more often in future

 

[robie]

Hello all, busy with income taxes so kind of dropped ball on wine forum after reading some of the comments to my original post I realize that I may be exaggerating my ability to kill the yeast it comes with. I pick up the buckets as soon as they come in and are very cold, sometimes almost frozen. I then add the potassium metabisulphite immediately, and I wait about 30hours to add my yeast which I "proof" in warm water with yeast nutrient for 10 minutes before I add it to the bucket- you can see it fermenting like when making bread! One time I was forced to add my yeast in less than 24hours as I had to go out of town and after 5 days nothing was happening -which is why I felt I was actually killing all the yeast -not just stunning it. There have been other times when it had already started and all I did was slow it down. But even in those situations, where obviously it was a mixture of yeast cultures I was happy with the end result and the fermentation went to SG of 0.992 or better.
I am planning on trying Rockys wine skin idea with this years Chilean Zinfandel juice and Cabernet grapes, which are due to arrive in 3 weeks!

Best to all and will try to check back more often in future

Hey, as long as you are happy with the results, what could be better?

 

[OldCanalBrewing]

I might try 1/2 to 1 lb raisins in my Pinot Nior this Sat. Wont hurt.

 

[harleydmn]

I have only done kits and skeeter pee so far but getting a couple Chilean Juice buckets, is there a formula for add energizer and nutrient? Is there anything else I should use?

 

[Momdrann]

I have only done kits and skeeter pee so far but getting a couple Chilean Juice buckets, is there a formula for add energizer and nutrient? Is there anything else I should use?

The yeast nutrient package tells you how much to add for the number of gallons. The other things you add depend on the wine you are making. I add medium toast oak chips to my reds. I also check the actual total acid ( with a TA kit) and usually end up adding tartaric acid. When I first started making from buckets I pulled the instructions from the kits and talked to the people at the wine supply store and referred to wine making books. It's a lot more fun and rewarding when you start figuring out things for yourself. And get a notebook !!

Luck

 

[harleydmn]

Luck,
I thought this site was for all of us to help each other out, and no question was a dumb question. Now I'm told to figuring out on my own and get a notebook! I guess I was hoping for some more info about yeast nutrients and energizer.

 

[Rocky]

Luck,
I thought this site was for all of us to help each other out, and no question was a dumb question. Now I'm told to figuring out on my own and get a notebook! I guess I was hoping for some more info about yeast nutrients and energizer.

Harley, I think you completely misunderstood what was written. "Luck" was referring to her own experience in saying it was fun to try things on her own. She found it fun to figure things out on her own by talking to people and she needed a notebook for all the information.

As far as yest nutrient and energizer are concerned, personally I try to use as little of that type of addition as possible. I would rather try to remedy problem fermentations with increased temperature, different and more aggressive strains of yeast, stirring and time. I try to avoid adding chemicals to my wine but, according to the manufacturer, the dosage for nutrient is 1 t per gallon and for energizer 1/2 t per gallon.

 

[harleydmn]

Thanks Rocky,
So I really may not need it. The buckets come already with yeast in them so I have no choice. From reading other posts I though it was needed to add the chemicals.

Sorry I read the post the wrong way, I thought it was directed at me.

 

[robie]

Thanks Rocky,
So I really may not need it. The buckets come already with yeast in them so I have no choice. From reading other posts I though it was needed to add the chemicals.

Sorry I read the post the wrong way, I thought it was directed at me.

I understand the possible confusion!!!

I have never made any of these particular juice buckets. I also am a little confused about them.
Do they also come with the other necessary chemicals?
Are they pre-balanced?
Do they require yeast nutrients?
Can they go through MLF?
What instructions exactly come with them?

I guess I am wondering if they are more like fresh grape juice that needs all the processing of such, or are they more like a kit wine, which only requires simple stabilization and clarifying?

 

[shoebiedoo]

I understand the possible confusion!!!

I have never made any of these particular juice buckets. I also am a little confused about them.
Do they also come with the other necessary chemicals? They do NOT come with any other chemicals but they ARE pre-balanced
Are they pre-balanced?
Do they require yeast nutrients? I didn't add any yeast nutrients to the last batch I got.
Can they go through MLF? That's the confusing part to me. The wine maker up at L'uva Bella, where my buckets came from, said it's not necessary to go through MLF unless you plan to age more than 2 years.
What instructions exactly come with them? The instructions are pretty vague at best. I believe there's some guidance on the buckets but they're not much help. You have the flexibility to oak them the way you want along with other enchantments.

I guess I am wondering if they are more like fresh grape juice that needs all the processing of such, or are they more like a kit wine, which only requires simple stabilization and clarifying?

I would put them in between kits and Frozen must (like Brehm's) as they are balanced but that's about it.

I'm sure others will chime in too


Steve