Fleishmans EVER?

[firejohn03]

I am a real novice to winemaking. I have followed a passed down recipe all my life. The only thing is, I have always used bread yeast. I have a lot more passion than knowledge and could use some explanation on the difference of yeasts. Thanks. New to the forum and enjoying the threads. P.s I have always made a wild muscadine wine.

 

[seth8530]

Welcome to the forums! Different kinds of yeast have different characteristics. These include:

1. Different alcohol tolerances
2. Different optimal temperatures
3. Different nutrient requirements
4. Different attenuation characteristics ( ability to eat different kinds of sugars [ much more important in beer])
5. and most importantly, different flavor contributions.

There are quite a few other things that go into choosing a yeast strain to use in a wine but those are all the major ones that I could think of at the moment. I would recomend that you use a good wine yeast over a bread yeast since the wine yeast is meant to deal with the acidic conditions of the must much better than bread yeast. Also, wine yeast tends to survive alcoholic environments much better and also tends to compact better while at the same time tends to give a better flavor profile. This is not to say that using bread yeast is a sin, but usually I would use it as only a last resort....

Since I assume you are just now starting your journey on LEARNING about the KNOWLEDGE portion of making wine I assume that their are quite a few things you need to read up on. I would recomend that you get these products if you do not have them already.

1. Hydrometer! The most important tool for any winemaker. It tells you the density of the must so that you can approximate how much sugar is in it as well as the alcohol content. Also very important for verifying that fermentation is moving right on along.
2. Carboy with airlock and bung, for aging your wine in and keeping the air out as well as other beasties.
3. Potassium metabisulfite and Potassium sorbate.. The sulfite for sanitizing and helping ward of infection and spoilage and the sorbate if you intend on sweetening your wine once it has gone dry.
4. Different kinds of yeast for different kinds of must
5. Nutrient such as DAP and Fermaid K

I think that is it for the basics.. If you have any questions please ask or read these forums. This place is a wonderful place to learn.

BTW have you ever visited Savannah Oaks Winery?

 

[jamesngalveston]

I have 40 acres in south Texas that is covered in wild Muscadines,
would you share your recipe...please.

 

[bakervinyard]

firejohn03, Welcome to WMT. Check out the forum section there is one on yeast. Good reading. Bakervinyard

 

[firejohn03]

Thanks for the info Seth. I definetly need to get a hydrometer, and a little knowledge in its use. I do have carboys, but my airlock is old school tubing run into a jar of water. I am not a fan of sweet wines and I am working hard at making my muscadine drier. I am learning and will get better yeast for sure. Jamesgalveston as far as my recipe goes, it is old school and probably a little unrefined lol. I start, in a five gallon bucket, with 3 gallons of washed muscadines, destemed and crushed. 5 lbs of sugar and top with water. yeast poured on top. I leave the top off for a week covered only with a towel. Stirring daily. After about a week I strain out pulp and pour into carboy top with water and fix a air lock. ( I use a five gallon water bottle as carboy, and my airlock is a stopper with tubing into a jar of water) When it stops bubbling I rack it to another carboy. Being that I don't use any clarifiers it sets for a while until it clears. Also, I have made a few batches of good vinegar because I am just learning about campden. It will clear after a few racking, and then it is bottled. No batch has ever been the same but it has always done the trick. I just recently started an apprenticeship at a local winery and hoping to improve a lot... I'm enjoying this forum for sure!!!

 

[JohnT]

Just to add to what seth said...


Think of what the yeast you use is cultured for.

Fleishman's yeast is developed as a levening for bread. It is quick to activate and proof dough. Since the yeast is killed off in the oven, the yeast is never really intended for long term fermentation.

I am not saying that you can not have success using bread yeast. You can, but you are opening the door for big problems that your bread yeast was never intended to deal with.

Wine yeasts are rather inexpensive ($2-3 delivered), so if the price is what you are concerned with, you have nothing to worry about.

Also, like seth said, there are many different advantages with many different types of yeast. I know a number of folks choose to go to the EC-1118 strain (a yeast used for champagne) as their all purpose yeast. I tend to shy away from this strain unless I am going for a high AVP in my final product or if I am looking to go sparkling (the intended use for this particular yeast). For a standard red, I might go with R212 and I might go with D47 for a classic white.

You do not mention what type of wine you are making. Given more information, we could recomend a yeast more suited to what you are doing. I would recomend that you get a wine yeast suited to what you are making and do a bench trial. Use flieshman's in half and the wine yeast in the other half and then check out the difference in the final product. The results will surprise you!

 

[seth8530]

Just to add to what seth said...


Think of what the yeast you use is cultured for.

Fleishman's yeast is developed as a levening for bread. It is quick to activate and proof dough. Since the yeast is killed off in the oven, the yeast is never really intended for long term fermentation.

I am not saying that you can not have success using bread yeast. You can, but you are opening the door for big problems that your bread yeast was never intended to deal with.

Wine yeasts are rather inexpensive ($2-3 delivered), so if the price is what you are concerned with, you have nothing to worry about.

Also, like seth said, there are many different advantages with many different types of yeast. I know a number of folks choose to go to the EC-1118 strain (a yeast used for champagne) as their all purpose yeast. I tend to shy away from this strain unless I am going for a high AVP in my final product or if I am looking to go sparkling (the intended use for this particular yeast). For a standard red, I might go with R212 and I might go with D47 for a classic white.

You do not mention what type of wine you are making. Given more information, we could recomend a yeast more suited to what you are doing. I would recomend that you get a wine yeast suited to what you are making and do a bench trial. Use flieshman's in half and the wine yeast in the other half and then check out the difference in the final product. The results will surprise you!

'

I am pretty sure he is making muscadine wine. My guess would be that he wants an acid tolerant yeast that can help tame down the acidity perhaps Lavlin 71B-1122?


@ John

It sound to me that you might also be having some issues with oxidation if your wine tends to spoil on you. One of the things you can do to prevent this is to keep the air off of your wine. Ie use tubing to rack the wine and always make sure that you have as little headspace in a carboy as possible. That along with K-meta should take care of that.

Also, by using a hydrometer and the proper yeast you can relibly make a dry wine nearly every time. That is the nice thing about learning a few of these tricks.


There are plenty of threads on hydrometer use on this board but the basic run down is as follows.

1. Take a sample of wine/must near 60* (room temp) and make sure it has a little floaties in it as possible and pour that into the hydrometer tube
2. Float the hydrometer in this tube and read off the value you want (most tubes will have Specific gravity ie 1.00 1.01 1.02....1.1 1.12...., Brix 0 1 2 3 4 5...... or Potential alcohol 0-20% ish. Most people use Specific gravity since that is what the hydrometer is actually reading (specific gravity is a density measurement) the other two values are kind of implied values.
3. Once you have the specific gravity you have a pretty much universal way to talk about how much sugar is in your wine. You can then use the drop in specific gravity to estimate how much alcohol is in your wine. A bone dry wine is around .990 (hard to hit) and still being fairly dry around 1.000.
4. Another use of the SG is that you can check up on how fermentation is moving along. Ie SG not moving after a day or two the wine might be stuck. SG drops 100 points in day and you have an extremely lively fermentation.

Anyways, thats the basics. If anyone has anything to add or correct please feel free. Also, their are plenty of other threads that talk about this in greater detail than I have so give them a read if things are not clear.

 

[firejohn03]

Man you guys are awesome.... Thanks for taking time to help a novice. John T, Seth is correct in that I make a muscadine wine, although I do intend on expanding that this year. Maybe a fruit infused or skeeter pee recipe.
I have found a brew and wine supply store locally and intend on stocking up soon. Is there a good all purpose yeast that would be more beneficial on simple recipes other than bread yeast?
Seth, Oxidation is a problem for me but how do you counter-act that during degassing? I lost my last batch, and I think it was during degassing. After my secondary fermentation I transferred to a bucket to stir and degas. Is that where I messed up? I have never bottled the clearest of wines ,(since I am just learning of clarifiers) How can I stir in a carboy? Thanks again fellas for taking time to answer my seemingly inept questions......

 

[seth8530]

A good all purpose yeast for learning on would be ec-1118. It is a champagne yeast and an extremely vigorous fermenter. It is good up to 18% ABV and will give you a pretty clean flavour profile as far as yeast goes.

Alright, first off stirring a wine that has already fermented is a no go lol. Dont do that. Bad! hehe, what I would recommend is letting it degas on its own over time inside of a carboy with an airlock filled with water. What will happen is the gas will slowly diffuse out of the airlock over time no stirring needed. Mixing oxygen into an already fermented wine is a sure way to oxidize it. Also, by letting the wine sit for months and degas you will notice that the wine will clear on its own. You do not need to use clearing agents but they are ok to use. Then you can rack off of the sediment before you bottle and have crystal clear wine in your bottle.

 

[saramc]

You mention you are using a water bottle for a carboy....might I suggest you invest in a carboy geared for fermentation like a glass carboy or a PET one like a Better Bottle or Vintage Shop. The basic water bottle ones are not typically constructed for acidic solutions plus oxygen permeability is a concern.

 

[jswordy]

I have 40 acres in south Texas that is covered in wild Muscadines,
would you share your recipe...please.

You lucky man! I have to buy mine. Here's another recipe idea, both the old-timey version and how I did it by adding modern winemaking techniques, in this thread...

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/moonshiners-muscadine-37244/

This continues to be on its way to the best-ever wine I have made. I wish I had 40 acres of free grapes to make it with!

 

[JohnT]

The MOs to prevent oxidation is..

1) Monitor your PH or Acid levels. Low acid (high ph) leaves you wine vulnerable to oxidation.

2) Up the tannin level in your wine. Tanin is an antioxident and will help pertect your wine, but can make the wine bitter so be careful on this one.

3) Maintain proper levels of SO2.

4) Keep you wine vessel FILLED UP!!!!! leave as little head space as possible

5) be sure you bung or stopper is in good shape.

Follow all of the above and oxidation should be a thing of the past.

johnT.