RJ Spagnols First wine kit question

[Redskins]

Hi everyone,

This is my first attempt at making a wine so i just bought a cheap kit from a local brew supply store. It is a Grand Cru Pinot Grigio. I have it in the primary fermenter right now and it is on its 8th day. The instructions say to move it to a carboy and add the other packets on the 14th day however from everything i have been reading most people seem to be only leaving wine in primary fermenter for about 7 days. Is 14 days too long for a primary fermenter? The airlock is still bubbling at the top so i would guess that if i put it in the carboy the top might end up popping off.

Also, should i take the lid off before 14 days is up to test the hydrometer reading and then put the lid back on or just leave it be?

Thanks!

 

[robie]

Welcome to the forum.

For primary, the number of days is more a general time frame and can change drastically, depending on temperature and other factors.

During primary, rather than go by a specific number of days, use your hydrometer. Your instructions should say what the SG should be when it is time to move the wine from primary to secondary. (Usually between 1.010 and 1.020, but follow your kit instructions)

For time in secondary, it is best to leave the wine in for the number of days specified, as the wine picks up some nice characteristics during the secondary time frame.

However, before you remove the wine from secondary, make sure the SG reading is at or below 1.000 and that it hasn't changed for 3 days in a row. So, 3 days before the number of days for secondary are completed, check the SG. Then, on the last day check it again. If it hasn't dropped, move on to the stabilizing phase.

Good luck and have fun. It will get easier with each kit you make.

 

[Redskins]

Thanks for the quick response!

Here is a link to the exact instructions of my kit:
http://www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/assets/images/products/media/26271 GC, HE, VDV23.pdf

For the step of moving from primary to secondary it does not actually say what the SG should be so i will test the SG tomorrow. So if it is supposed to be a 4 week kit, and i move it to the secondary after a week if the SG has lowered enough then i guess it could turn into a less than 4 week kit?

Another question i have that the instructions do not really mention but i have learned on the forums:
Once i move it to secondary some people seem to rack it a few times back and fourth between cleaned carboys to avoid the sediment. The instructions do not mention this at all and just say to move to secondary for 2 weeks and then rack it once before bottling. I guess this will just depend on the clarity of the wine at that point right?

Also, is it okay to remove the lid and test the SG then put the lid back on if it is not low enough or would i need to clean/sanitize the lid before putting it back on?

Thanks again!

 

[robie]

Thanks for the quick response!

Here is a link to the exact instructions of my kit:
http://www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/assets/images/products/media/26271%20GC,%20HE,%20VDV23.pdf

For the step of moving from primary to secondary it does not actually say what the SG should be so i will test the SG tomorrow. So if it is supposed to be a 4 week kit, and i move it to the secondary after a week if the SG has lowered enough then i guess it could turn into a less than 4 week kit?

Another question i have that the instructions do not really mention but i have learned on the forums:
Once i move it to secondary some people seem to rack it a few times back and fourth between cleaned carboys to avoid the sediment. The instructions do not mention this at all and just say to move to secondary for 2 weeks and then rack it once before bottling. I guess this will just depend on the clarity of the wine at that point right?

Also, is it okay to remove the lid and test the SG then put the lid back on if it is not low enough or would i need to clean/sanitize the lid before putting it back on?

Thanks again!

You rack the wine from the primary container to a clean secondary container. Once the wine is in secondary, you don't rack it again until secondary is finished. Secondary is generally done in a carboy. That carboy much be sealed with an air lock so oxygen cannot get in.

Once the number of days for secondary have passed and the SG is no longer dropping, then and only then do you rack the wine to a clean carboy, leaving the sediment behind. At that racking, you also stabilize the wine.

You don't have to be in a hurry to bottle. Many don't bottle for several months, allowing more time for sediment to fall in the carboy and not in your bottles. After secondary is completed and your wine is clearing, assuming you let the wine clear for, as example, 4 months, you can rack the wine after the first 2 months, then bottle after 4. I always rack again at bottling time, so I don't suck sediment into the bottles.

You can remove the lid long enough to test the SG. Just don't let anything touch the insides of the lid and you won't have to re-sanitize the lid each time. Just put it back into place as soon as the testing is done. During primary, each time you remove the lid to test the SG, give the wine a gentle stir. This will break up the foam and help insure a good reading on the hydrometer.

 

[cpfan]

RJ Spagnols instructions for that kit are designed to omit the secondary fermentation. The wine is racked to carboy for the first time when the sg has dropped below .998 (probably about .995). The additives are added at the same time (again according to the instructions).

Although you can transfer to carboy prior to the sg dropping below .998, you are no longer following the instructions, and should follow a different set of RJS instructions (for example http://www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/assets/images/products/media/GrandCruInternationalEnglish2.pdf).

Personally, I suggest that on your first time, you follow the instructions that came with the kit. However, switching to the other instructions is fine. Just don't blend the two sets of instructions.

Four weeks? Three weeks? Personally I think you should go at least two weeks longer than the instructions call for before bottling (more if not clear). (Patience is a winemaker's most important attribute.)

BTW, it's been a few years since I made a Grand Cru kit. IMO, they make a pretty good wine. Soon you will graduate to Cru Sedlect and Cellar Craft Winery Series, and En Primeur (or equivalent).

Steve

 

[Redskins]

Thanks for the responses everyone it is greatly appreciated. I do plan on doing another "cheap" or inexpensive kit again in a few weeks to get more settled in with the process and will then plan on trying some more expensive ones.

In the instructions is says to age the bottles for a couple months in a temperature below 60 degrees. My apartment is set at 70 degrees will that be a problem? I would eventually like to invest in a wine cooler but not for the first batch that i am doing.

 

[cpfan]

In the instructions is says to age the bottles for a couple months in a temperature below 60 degrees. My apartment is set at 70 degrees will that be a problem? I would eventually like to invest in a wine cooler but not for the first batch that i am doing.

Just do the best that you can. Very few of us have ideal conditions to store our wine.

How many bottles will your wine cooler hold? The last time I did a count there was over 200 bottles in my storage area. Can't afford that big a cooler.

Steve

 

[Redskins]

I have two more questions for you all if you dont mind. I bought a 6.5 Gallon Carboy this weekend for phase 2 in a few days and my instructions call for a 6 gallon carboy. So since mine is 6.5 should i not fill the water to the two inches under the airlock? Or would it be okay to add in some cheap wine instead of water and then i could just fill it to the two inches under waterlock without having to worry about it getting watered down? Since it is calling for a 6 and i have a 6.5 it seems if i use water it may get too watered down if i do indeed fill up to where they are telling me to.

Also it says on the 14th day to move the wine into the carboy and add everything for stabalizing and clearing. The water in the waterlock is no longer bubbling on day 11 should i still wait until day 14? Will it give the wine a bad taste to sit on the lees that long? I have not tested the SG in this phase since i first started the kit.

THANKS!

 

[robie]

I have two more questions for you all if you dont mind. I bought a 6.5 Gallon Carboy this weekend for phase 2 in a few days and my instructions call for a 6 gallon carboy. So since mine is 6.5 should i not fill the water to the two inches under the airlock? Or would it be okay to add in some cheap wine instead of water and then i could just fill it to the two inches under waterlock without having to worry about it getting watered down? Since it is calling for a 6 and i have a 6.5 it seems if i use water it may get too watered down if i do indeed fill up to where they are telling me to.

Also it says on the 14th day to move the wine into the carboy and add everything for stabalizing and clearing. The water in the waterlock is no longer bubbling on day 11 should i still wait until day 14? Will it give the wine a bad taste to sit on the lees that long? I have not tested the SG in this phase since i first started the kit.

THANKS!

I don't think they make true 6 gallon carboys, since the Mexican carboy is no longer being produced. This means all so-called 6 gallon carboys are really more like 6.5 gallons.

During secondary fermentation in the carboy, it is not necessary to top off the wine. However, during clearing and aging, the wine must be topped off. The kit manufactures claim the strength of the kit wine makes it designed to be topped off with water. Since kit wines come out much thinner than commercial wines, I just can't see ever using water. So, yes, top off with a like wine. For reds, if you can't get hold of a like wine, a Merlot has a nice neutral taste profile and can be used for topping off most any red.

You need to test the SG to make sure the wine finished OK. It is recommended by experts like Tim V. of Winemaker Magazine to always leave the wine in secondary at least the recommended amount of time, even if it finished dry very early. The wine develops some nice, needed characteristics during that time on the fine lees. If you are doing secondary in the fermenter bucket (earlier I had forgotten RJS recommends doing the entire fermentation in the bucket) , you most not be opening the bucket other than three days before secondary is scheduled to end, then of course on the last day to make sure the SG is not still dropping. Make sure the bucket is sealed and air locked.

 

[Redskins]

It is in the primary still right now on its 11th day and the airlock has stopped bubbling so i was thinking of moving to my secondary stage early. Secondary will be in a carboy for two weeks with the clearing agents and other things the instructions have me add. I will siphon wine from the bucket to the carboy and add and degass then begin the secondary. I will just wait until the 14th day on thursday to do it like the instructions say instead of a few days early i guess

 

[robie]

It is in the primary still right now on its 11th day and the airlock has stopped bubbling so i was thinking of moving to my secondary stage early. Secondary will be in a carboy for two weeks with the clearing agents and other things the instructions have me add. I will siphon wine from the bucket to the carboy and add and degass then begin the secondary. I will just wait until the 14th day on thursday to do it like the instructions say instead of a few days early i guess

Secondary is not what you are thinking. You are doing an RJS kit, so it is sort of confusing. Secondary is a fermentation stage, not a part of the stabilizing or clearing stage.

Generally for kits, making the wine is divided into these stages:

Primary - Done generally in a fermentation bucket until the SG gets to around 1.010.

Secondary - Final phase of fermentation. The wine is left here for at least 10 days (follow your kit instructions) and until the SG is at or below 1.000 and is no longer dropping (Wine is dry). During this stage, RJ Spagnol recommends leaving the wine in the fermentor bucket under air lock. Other kit makers (most other) recommend racking the wine off the heavier lees of primary and into an air locked carboy for this phase.

Racking/Stabilizing/degassing - Wine is racked out of the secondary fermentation container, off the lees. Kmeta and sometimes sorbate is added to stabilize the wine. The wine is degassed with a vacuum pump or some sort of stirrer.

Clearing - Kits include a clearing agent to be added at this time. Once added, the wine is left setting while the sediment is allowed to settle out in the bottom of the container.

Aging - The wine is aged in a carboy and/or in the bottle. I seldom bottle my wine before it is aged 12 months in the carboy. This gives the wine longer to drop any additional sediment, rather than it dropping in the bottle.

 

[Redskins]

Great, thanks for clearing everything up Robie!

 

[Redskins]

Is it okay to use vinyl tubing from home depot to siphon wine? I just bought an auto siphon off amazon that came today but i need to get tubing for it. I am asking because i read that you should use "food grade" tubing. I will of course be cleaning and sanitizing.

Thanks!

 

[cpfan]

Is it okay to use vinyl tubing from home depot to siphon wine? I just bought an auto siphon off amazon that came today but i need to get tubing for it. I am asking because i read that you should use "food grade" tubing. I will of course be cleaning and sanitizing.

Thanks!

The tubing that I use is marked as 'food grade tubing' along the length of it. Make sure that you get the right size. The standard auto-siphon uses 5/16" id x 7/16" od.

Steve

 

[Redskins]

Is it okay to buy vinyl tubing that does not say food grade on it? I was going to purchase some from home depot and clean/sanitize it but was not sure if that type of clear tubing was safe to use on beer/wine?

 

[cpfan]

Is it okay to buy vinyl tubing that does not say food grade on it? I was going to purchase some from home depot and clean/sanitize it but was not sure if that type of clear tubing was safe to use on beer/wine?

My answer would be "NO". Did you go to HD and look at the tubing? Here in Canada, I have seen food grade tubing in some hardware stores .

Steve

 

[ShaunDanz]

Redskins, I've made the kit you are currently making along with eight other Pinot Grigio kits last year. My wife really likes Pinot Grigio. Anyway, I find that even the cheaper Pinot Grigio kits will continue to drop sediment long after the four or six weeks that the kit recommends before bottling. Because of this, I do not bottle my cheap Pinot Grigio's for 60 days after I start the kit and the more expensive Pinot Grigio kits, I wait 90 days.

Also, and this will be difficult to do, try not to drink the wine for at least six months -- nine months for more expensive Pinot Grigio's. I was lucky to learn this after doing a couple of kits. The aroma and flavor in these wines do not seem to develop until that long. Although, drinking one bottle a month will let you learn how the taste of the wine progresses as it ages. It's actually quite exciting.

 

[ShaunDanz]

I do not see a problem with moving it to secondary, but I would be wary of stabilizing it on the 11th day. Pinot Grigio is meant to be a dry wine and if you stabilize before it finishes fermenting, you could end up with a weak, sweet wine. If it were me, and I don't follow instructions anymore, I would move it to the secondary until day 14-17. I just checked my wine records and I stabalize anywhere from day 14 to day 20.

Your wine, right now, is technically in secondary fermentation, but you are doing it in the bucket. Moving it to the carboy right now would be considered finishing secondary fermentation in the carboy.

Don't stabilize now, you need to be patient. That's why I mentioned waiting 60 days before bottling. Patience is the best ingredient to making a good wine.