first wine, good, but got questions

[Zule]

Bottled my first wine from a carboy two days ago. It was apple juice. All things considered its very good and I am very happy with the taste (not acidic, drinkable without even adding sugar), but its a tad weak, and needs more sugar for fermentation next time. I want to start two new batch of this apple juice and got a few questions:

1# I heard slower fermentation is better. Problem is anytime I have yeast nutrients it goes crazy with activity (lots of bubbles and foam often overflowing), while without yeast nutrients it stops fermentation after about 2 weeks. How do I avoid this? Maybe add small amounts of yeast nutrient every 2-3 days?

2# Been using EC-1118, but now got some Premier Cuvee. From what I read both these yeast should be able to do at least up to 15%. But I wonder if this strain maybe needs less yeast nutrients?

3# When I first moved my carboy, I noticed these small particulars at the top of the carboy starting to sink. It was weird, they kind of looked like the white calcium particles in water after its been frozen. Any idea what that was about?

 

[calvin]

Look like this? I think it's just floating lees or something. It didn't seem to cause any problems for me


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[Zule]

yeah, must of of been floating lees. But it was much smaller. About 1/10th of the length of the big piece in your pic, and about 30-50 of them. All starting sinking the moment I moved the carboy (did not notice them before that, at first I thought maybe they fell from the airlock some how).

 

[Turock]

I'm not sure why you want slower fermentation. When making white-style wines, you want to have cool fermentation so that you retain the volatiles that influence the nose of the wine and flavor. Keeping the ferment in the 70 degree range is good for this. There's a big difference between the ambient temp and the temp of the ferment. You can have a cool area where you're doing the ferment, but the ferment itself can get pretty warm. You can control the temp with ice bombs--milk jugs full of frozen water.

Do not withhold nutrient to slow the ferment. All you do is stress the yeast and then you get either a stuck ferment or H2S problems, or both. EC-1118 yeast can produce quite a bit of H2S so be sure to step feed nutrient. You should get used to step-feeding nutrient to all your ferments to avoid stressing the yeast. Divide the total nutrient dose in half. First dose goes in when the yeast starts taking off--second dose at 50% dry stage when using regular yeast nutrient. Do not add nutrient past the 50% dry mark--the yeast can't utilize the N2 at that point.

 

[JohnT]

1) a slower (cold) fermentation would make sure that you keep more of the fruit characteristics of the base fruit. The best way to control this is by temperature. Cool down the must to, say, 65 degrees and keeping it at that temp throughout fermentation (which can last as long as 3 weeks). Some winemakers go even colder.

2) For wine, ALL yeast needs yeast nutrients. Although the specs say 15%, you will find that yeast can produce even higher levels of alcohol. Yeast is a living, breathing, life form and strives to survive. at 15% that yeast may begin to die off and fermentation begins to rail off.

3) My guess is that this was nothing more than yeast clumps. Perfectly normal, but I would ask if you tasted or smelled the wine. Did it smell/taste ok?

 

[Zule]

Divide the total nutrient dose in half. First dose goes in when the yeast starts taking off--second dose at 50% dry stage when using regular yeast nutrient. Do not add nutrient past the 50% dry mark--the yeast can't utilize the N2 at that point.

I sort of tried doing this last time. I had over a day of foam on early fermentation that went into the carboy. When I later put in my second half of yeast nutrients I had a volcano of foam (right over the carboy opening). Even if I was well bellow the shoulder level of the carboy I would of had this problem. How do I avoid this?

I have been thinking of trying to maybe put about 1/5th the sugar and yeast nutrient at the time (every 3-4 days) to do if I can reduce this problem.

 

[Zule]

1) a slower (cold) fermentation would make sure that you keep more of the fruit characteristics of the base fruit. The best way to control this is by temperature. Cool down the must to, say, 65 degrees and keeping it at that temp throughout fermentation (which can last as long as 3 weeks). Some winemakers go even colder.

2) For wine, ALL yeast needs yeast nutrients. Although the specs say 15%, you will find that yeast can produce even higher levels of alcohol. Yeast is a living, breathing, life form and strives to survive. at 15% that yeast may begin to die off and fermentation begins to rail off.

3) My guess is that this was nothing more than yeast clumps. Perfectly normal, but I would ask if you tasted or smelled the wine. Did it smell/taste ok?

My goal is only for about 14% alcohol level in my next batch. From what I read both those trains can do up to 18%, but the curvee might be a bit better at higher levels (which is part of the reason I want to try it).

Wine tasted fine, it was only in a 3 gallon carboy, and its weak stuff. I already drank over two liters of it.

 

[Arne]

I sort of tried doing this last time. I had over a day of foam on early fermentation that went into the carboy. When I later put in my second half of yeast nutrients I had a volcano of foam (right over the carboy opening). Even if I was well bellow the shoulder level of the carboy I would of had this problem. How do I avoid this?

I have been thinking of trying to maybe put about 1/5th the sugar and yeast nutrient at the time (every 3-4 days) to do if I can reduce this problem.

Try doing your primary ferment in a foodsafe bucket. Leave plenty of headspace on top. If you have to use two buckets to leave room for expansion. When you get down to 1.010 or lower you can transfer to the carboy. Also by using a bucket it makes it easier to stir and easier to add ingredients. Good luck with it, Arne

 

[wineforfun]

So when you say weak, are you talking alcohol-wise? or flavor-wise?

What was your starting SG and ending SG?

 

[Zule]

Arne: Hmmm, maybe ill look into a bucket. Or how about making 3 gallons worth of 'must' but putting it in a 6 gallon carboy for the first weeks or so and when I do the transfer I move over all the lees...

wineforfun: Weak as in not very strong. I estimate the alcohol is somewhere between 6-8%. My math tells me the apple juice has about 5% alcohol potential based on natural sugars, I then added a small amount of extra sugar. This was one of my first batches, so I did not take any hydrometer readings. Past two days I drank so much of it that I could smell the applejuice in my urine the next morning, kind of like how after you drink a large coffee

 

[Arne]

Try the bucket once. It makes life easier. You can just cover it with a towel or something. I usually put a towel on it then lay t he lid on top of that. Reason for the lid with the towel, not too long ago we had a kitten. He still hasn't grown out of the kitten stage and a couple of years old. The lid keeps me from fermenting the cat. LOL, Arne.

 

[Zule]

Problem with a bucket is I got none. But I got some two 6 gallon carboys I am not using.

 

[sour_grapes]

Problem with a bucket is I got none. But I got some two 6 gallon carboys I am not using.

Well, that'll work. Messier to clean after primary, but if you keep it half full, you shouldn't have the volcano problem.