WineXpert Finings AND bulk aging?

[NashChic]

I started the WineXpert Eclipse Stag's Leap Merlot kit on May 2. This is my first premium kit, and also the first kit I plan to bulk age for any significant period of time. I plan to bulk age for 12 months. But in trying to follow the instructions, I find myself a little confused. I know the instructions and included finings are basically guiding you to bottling around the 6-week mark, which I don't plan to do.

I'm very much an "instruction reader" and "direction follower" so deviating makes me a little nervous since this is uncharted territory for me. I've tried to search & gather info, but I'm not sure I've found exactly what I'm looking for yet.

Here's my plan. Please critique and advise...

My wine is out of primary and has been in the carboy since 5/9. It is not topped up all the way. When I confirm that secondary fermentation has finished, I plan to rack, add included kmeta, add included oak cubes, but SKIP degassing, included sorbate, & included chitosan (2 packages).

I do not have a vacuum pump and usually degas with a whip. I don't want to do that with this wine, so I'm hoping it will be degassed after 12 months aging.

I will let it sit with the oak cubes for a while. (Anybody have a guideline for that... 3 weeks? 3 months?) Then throughout the bulk aging I will rack & add 1/4tsp kmeta every 4 months or so. (I don't have a way to test SO2)

Does this sound right?

 

[tonyt]

If you are going to bulk age for 12 months why not follow instructions and use provided sorbate and chitosan? Most or all KT will have deminished by then. Assuming four ounces or so of oak cubes I would start tasting after a month. Then taste every week or two till its just past what I want. Then rack off of the oak.

 

[NashChic]

Thanks for the input, Tony!

Would the wine clear on its own in 12 months?

And if it doesn't clear, could I add the chitosan then?

What are the benefits of sorbate for a dry wine?

I'm still pretty new to this and virtually all my info comes from this forum (thanks guys!), so I'm just trying to learn the practices and the reasons behind them.

 

[dessertmaker]

The wine should clear within 12 months without any chemicals. If it doesn't you can always add the clarifying agent then and you'd be dealing with something pretty unusual. Sorbate serves NO purpose in dry wine. When you rack the wine, hold the racking tube so that the wine slides down the side of the carboy and it will degas itself fairly thoroughly.

Watch the sediment, you may need an extra racking after the first few months if you plan on letting it clear itself.

Edit: oh and after 6 months add 1/4 tsp kmeta.

 

[Stressbaby]

The way I've heard Turock and others explain it, you need to degas to help clear, and clear before you stabilize.

Sounds to me like you will degas with "falling film" racking. And so it would hopefully degas and fall clear on its own. No sorbate needed if you are keeping it dry.

I'm a noob, but your plan sounds completely reasonable to me.

 

[Dugger]

I would suggest you do at least some degassing (agitating with a spoon back and forth rather than round and round) to aid in clearing. If you store the wine at a low temp it may not degas very well on its own.
The oak cubes are usually only effective for about 6 weeks or so and the wine will not be overoaked by the included oak, so unless tou really don't like oak, you can put it in and forget about it until a later racking.
You only have to rack if you have sediment so don't automatically rack every 4 months; try to keep racking to a minimum. Keep an eye on the sediment and rack off it when it seems like the bulk of it has dropped, say around 2 months, remove the oak cubes, add some kmeta, say 1/8 tsp and let it bulk age. If you get more sediment you can rack again but there's probably not going to be enough to worry about so leave it until you are ready to bottle, and then add your 1/4 tsp kmeta. If you want more oak than that supplied you can add it when you take the cubes out.
If you have problems with it clearing, you can add the clearing agents later, but only add about half since most of the sediment will have dropped.
Good luck with it.

 

[ibglowin]

Sorbate serves NO purpose in dry wine.

Not true. There may be nothing for the yeast to ferment but Sorbate provides protection from ANY bug that might be floating around in your wine trying to grow and multiply. Some winemakers do not clean/sanitize properly. This is where the addition of Sorbate would provide another layer of protection.

I don't use it in my dry wines as I have had some bad bubble gum taste after adding it but thats my personal decision.

 

[ibglowin]

Also if you are planning to bulk age for 12 months your going to have to top up or rack down to smaller vessel. You can't have a bottle (or two's worth) of headspace in a carboy for 12 months.

 

[tonyt]

Just to prolong the Sorbate question a bit longer and at the risk of hi-jacking this NC's thread, I generally add the sorbate in dry wine knowing that often I will back sweeten with some form of sugar prior to bottling. Not much, usually three or four ounces of pure cane syrup. My wife and I like to take the initial tart edge off for earlier drinking and it seems to dissipate as the wine ages. Neither she no I are at all sensitive to any taste from the Sorbate plus I always bulk age six to nine months. With all of that said does anyone know of any hard data on the taste effects of Sorbate in dry KIT wine?

 

[NashChic]

No worries about hijacking the thread. This is exactly the information I was hoping for.

I realize I forgot to add topping up (or racking down if I spring for a 5gal carboy) as a step in my plan, but I will definitely make sure it's done once secondary fermentation is finished.

I'm extremely careful about my cleaning and sanitizing practices, but ibglowin's comments about sorbate have me leaning toward using it. I think about sorbate as what you use if you sweeten, but didn't really think about it for its protective qualities. And I assume the kt would be gone by 12 months. Actually, I plan to enjoy maybe a bottle or so at 12 months, but I don't really plan to crack into this until 18-24 months.

Thank you all for your input!

 

[dessertmaker]

Not true. There may be nothing for the yeast to ferment but Sorbate provides protection from ANY bug that might be floating around in your wine trying to grow and multiply. Some winemakers do not clean/sanitize properly. This is where the addition of Sorbate would provide another layer of protection.

I don't use it in my dry wines as I have had some bad bubble gum taste after adding it but thats my personal decision.

I don't know of anyone who actually uses sorbate in dry wine that they are planning to age. Period. Unless they like bubblegum.

 

[dessertmaker]

I'm extremely careful about my cleaning and sanitizing practices, but ibglowin's comments about sorbate have me leaning toward using it. I think about sorbate as what you use if you sweeten, but didn't really think about it for its protective qualities.

Thank you all for your input!

Ya might wanna get a second opinion from someone. JohnT or Julie or SarahMC are usually pretty active on here. And theyve made tons more wine than i have. Ask one of them if its a good idea. I think ibglowin was trying to make a "technical" point to me. Not to encourage you to sorbate a dry wine that you intend to age for 2 years.

I mean hey it's your wine, do what you want to make it taste the way you want. It's just that most people don't want to taste a bubblegum flavor that just gets more and more powerful the longer it ages. Not my idea of a "premium" wine. ;-)

 

[jswordy]

I got so curious, I hadda Wiki it. I found the toxicology portion of most interest...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_sorbate

 

[terroirdejeroir]

I have been considering skipping the sorbate for a while now, but how dry is dry? I really don't like explosions much....

All of my kit wines have fermented down into the .990-.996 range.

 

[novalou]

I have been considering skipping the sorbate for a while now, but how dry is dry? I really don't like explosions much....

All of my kit wines have fermented down into the .990-.996 range.

As long as you let it ferment out and not add any sugar or juice, you can skip the sorbate.

 

[Boatboy24]

I've started skipping sorbate on my last 5 or 6 kits. No issues.

 

[NashChic]

I got so curious, I hadda Wiki it. I found the toxicology portion of most interest...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_sorbate

Wow!! That's interesting!