few questions about stuck fermentation

[Turock]

DAP is a fine nutrient for most ferments. But you need to step-feed it instead of tossing the whole dose in at the beginning--step-feeding should be done with ALL nutrients, not just DAP.

I think you need to aerate the must--fermenting under airlock is usually done for delicate wines where your goal is to retain volatiles. A bucket with a pressure valve in it seems to work better than an airlock.

 

[GeoS]

Fermentation is not a linear process. It starts out strong then tapers off. What you are describing sounds normal. I noticed you had about 6 day intervals which sounds about right. You may not see a change in SG at this point over a day. Check it after 4 or 5 days and if there is no change wait another day or two and check it again. Still no change add some nutrient, amount recommended by manufacturer, and stir the must daily. Do not use an airlock and just lightly set the lid on the bucket.

If you do see any change in SG you still have fermentation so leave it alone. It wouldn't hurt to remove the airlock and lightly set the lid on the bucket. Fermentation needs oxygen. I know it sounds counter to what were told about wine oxidizing however, during ferment, you need a small amount of oxygen, after ferment you want to avoid it. To get the oxygen in the wine just stir it a little.

I do not use an airlock until I get down to 1.020 to 1.010 and rack into a carboy which may take a few weeks.

Also remember the alcohol can kill the yeast so start around 1.080 SG. An alcohol level above 13.5% is bad for the yeast and your wine will taste more like brandy.

(Starting SG - Ending SG)/ Ending SG * 132.9 = %ABV

 

[GeoS]

A quick calc tells me batch 1 is about 13% ABV. This may be as high as it gets. The alcohol may be what's stopping fermentation. This is ok, you can still finish off the wine it will just be a sweeter wine. A typical wine is around 11% ABV. Your batch 2 looks like its coming along nicely.

 

[GeoS]

Sorry, my bad. Batch 1 is coming along and batch 2 has a high alcohol.

 

[beggarsu]

EC-1118 has an alcohol tolerance of 18 percent - I've frequently fermented wines usually 12 to 16 percent - no problem whatsoever.

My current Blackberry Blast ABV now 13% + fermented to .992 in 6.5 days - goes into airlock carboy tonight. - the current hot season helps

 

[GeoS]

EC 1118 is great for skeeter pee and other non traditional wines because of its high tolerance. I try to stay away from it with traditional wines because it is harsh. You can get a better flavor from less harsh yeasts.

 

[beggarsu]

EC 1118 is great for skeeter pee and other non traditional wines because of its high tolerance. I try to stay away from it with traditional wines because it is harsh. You can get a better flavor from less harsh yeasts.

The other ones from the same company also have high ABV tolerances.


http://www.lalvinyeast.com/strains.asp

I could probably taste for 30 years and never pay much attention to the difference nor care about it if I did notice it.
Maybe you taste a minute difference and intellectually decide it's "better" or "harsh" - this kind of tasting is an individual and subjectively developed thing.
To me delicious is delicious - taste is a subjective judgement not objective.

.
I've had many wines above 13.5 % - they taste like whatever they are made from - but not like brandy.

 

[GeoS]

There is a reason traditional wine is only 11% ABV. If you like the high alcohol that's great. For me, I can taste the different flavors developed by varying yeast and alcohol content. Its like the difference between Budweiser and Rochefort. Its the difference between Basil Hayden's and Jack Daniels. Higher ABV does not necessarily make better wine.

 

[beggarsu]

There is a reason traditional wine is only 11% ABV. If you like the high alcohol that's great. For me, I can taste the different flavors developed by varying yeast and alcohol content. Its like the difference between Budweiser and Rochefort. Its the difference between Basil Hayden's and Jack Daniels. Higher ABV does not necessarily make better wine.

Taste is extremely subjective. A lot of people here like higher alcohol content in wines.
First is detecting minute differences , second is the degree of conscious attention to those tastes, third is how you react to tastes - your attitude.
Like if someone has an attitude to hunt for certain tastes and has a certain intellectual opinion already fixed for some social reason of trying to be better than others then detection of those tastes evokes some emotional reaction.
..

And a lot has to do with psychology - I know there a people who grow up liking and disliking certain food's, myself I grew up poor and I just learned to like everything from being hungry.

I think if some people ate like they drank wine they would starve to death.

It's all subjective there is no right or wrong except it is wrong to try to impose your taste preferences on others. Higher ABV for me makes better wine (typically my wines are 12-13 % after backsweetening) and yeast differences to me are insignificant.

..
Of all those alcohol brands you mentioned I have never tried any of them.

I only drink beer in hot countries like when I go to China on business -- there I drink "Beijing Beer" brand which only cost 20 cents a bottle or so whereas all the American imports and the famous Qingdao which is exported all of which cost 20 to 30 times as much as local beer - and are all touted with some snobbery - I don't like them because I am used to the Beijing brand, - it's all subjective..

 

[GeoS]

I got hooked on the Belgium beers especially the Trappist beers while I was living in France. They were only 1.88 euros there. They are about $5 a bottle here so I don't get them often. I look at wine and its flavored as a science. To achieve optimal flavors you need to balance the alcohol, acid, etc... Some people like MD20/20 as well. My opinion is if I want to just get drunk I'll get some Old Crow. If I want to get some complex flavors I'll go with a nice wine. Its all about learning how to achieve the desired flavors.

 

[beggarsu]

I got hooked on the Belgium beers especially the Trappist beers while I was living in France. They were only 1.88 euros there. They are about $5 a bottle here so I don't get them often. I look at wine and its flavored as a science. To achieve optimal flavors you need to balance the alcohol, acid, etc... Some people like MD20/20 as well. My opinion is if I want to just get drunk I'll get some Old Crow. If I want to get some complex flavors I'll go with a nice wine. Its all about learning how to achieve the desired flavors.

No you don't need to balance etc etc because flavour is a subjective thing not an objective science. You decide what are your "desired flavors" based on your personality, your life experiences etc.

Some people look at wine like they are trying to find Al Qaeda terrorist cells they are not satisfied until they have purged the enemy! It looks like some kind of neurosis to me.

And no the people who don't follow your "rules" are neither stupid nor insensitive to taste nor do they just want to get drunk. They simply don't care about your 'balance' and your taste buds - they have their own.
..
The attempt to impose one's standards of taste on others is a form of snobbery, social fascism and one-upmanship. I find it abhorrent.

 

[GeoS]

Really!!!!! Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I'm sorry you don't like traditional wine and the science behind it. A lot of people do. It's unfortunate that you feel I my advice is incorrect because you like wine with high alcohol content. Your right, it's about what you like. I guess everyone should like their wine the way you like it. So I should NOT be giving them advice about traditional wines?

So, quit being argumentative and let's try to help people. Geesh, people like you are the reason I left the last forum!

 

[beggarsu]

Really!!!!! Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I'm sorry you don't like traditional wine and the science behind it. A lot of people do. It's unfortunate that you feel I my advice is incorrect because you like wine with high alcohol content. Your right, it's about what you like. I guess everyone should like their wine the way you like it. So I should NOT be giving them advice about traditional wines?

So, quit being argumentative and let's try to help people. Geesh, people like you are the reason I left the last forum!

Fascists like you are the reason I will leave this forum. You people don't love wine-making - you love power tripping over other people.

Don't tell me to quit being argumentative, I will uphold my right to resist oppression from fascist snobs like yourself - it is you who are persistently persecuting me here with your neurosis about what everyone SHOULD like.
...
You are not trying to help anyone - you are unasked and unwanted in trying to impose your snobbish fascist ideas on me.I've made it abundantly clear and yet you still persist , insulting me over and over again for not adhering to you particular version of insanity.
...
There is no science to personal preference you have a neurosis and a wish for power over others and traditional wine making will be what I want it to be not what you want it to be and I will use science for what purpose I want it not for your purpose.

No you still got it wrong - everyone should like their wine they way THEY like it not what you or I want.
Do you really understand that other human beings are not extensions of your ego?

You shouldn't be giving anyone "advice" when they are telling you they don't want it. Save the snob tripe about "tradition" and science" for the unsuspecting newbie.
...
Are you going to tell me with formulas and quadratic equations about what I'm supposed to like? I don't give a darn about flavors within flavors within flavours and twiddling drops of wine in my tongue for 20 years to tell the difference - you can stick that snob stuff up your empty bottle.
...
When something is delicious it is delicious , you don't make it better, - you just make it different. And a person can choose whether or not they want that difference or want to bother with it.

You want to do that snob stuff, you want to make specialty wines that take five years to produce just to find some arcane taste - fine - it's your prerogative - enjoy it as your personal "thing" but keep it to yourself don't impose it on others.
Helping people means helping them to do what they want , not what you want.


Go take a flying leap into a carboy and stop pestering me with your baloney.
...
You are not a wine guru,you don't love wine making, you don't accept what people do with this hobby, no one should listen to you. You are just playing a game of trying to use wine to feel superior to others and wine is your weapon for doing so.
And many others are doing this fascist thing here - that's why some people got fed up with the mission statement here and general attitudes and said so and got banned.
The idea of helping people to make the "best" wine is fascist and in-humanist because everyone has their own idea of what is best and it is an imposition to impose your own ideas of what is "best " on others - that is not love of a hobby , that is love of control.

Mine for instance will never involve aging something for five years to make "gourmet" snob wine. I detest the idea.

A humanistic mission statement is to help people enjoy all facets of wine making whatever they are doing and want to do.
...
When someone asks how to make a two handled corker work, the answer is not to slap them in the face and tell them they shouldn't use one and shouldn't be who they are, and should be using the top of the line model you , Mr. Rich guy has , oh Mr wonderful you (but you don't have that wineyard in France do you? ) that advice is 's not skill and that's not love of wine-making. A guru should know how to make every piece of equipment work form top to bottom and love every bit of it.

I'm fed up with guys like you ,you are prime social oppressors believing in your scientific and traditional right to be oppressive ... and I would take great pride in getting banned from here so I can find a forum with real people in it and a mission statement for loave of a hobby instead of being run by a snob Gestapo.

 

[GeoS]

Wow! I'm sorry for offering a different point of view.

 

[GeoS]

What makes you think I'm wealthy or rich? I think you assume too much.

 

[Runningwolf]

GeoS, I apologize for that post and I think it was also aimed at myself. It is reasons like this some members are banned.

 

[GeoS]

Its all good.

 

[reefman]

Wow, I see he posted that in another topic as well. He reminds me of someone else who was banned maybe a couple years ago.
He has some issues he needs to resolve.

 

[Zule]

Well an update on my 6 gallon carboy batch, looks like its going good. Expect for a slightly odd taste (I am hoping its a mix of this being high alcohol + not all yeast cleared + me not used to drinking this room temp) looks like this will be my first successful ~13% wine batch. My full copy/pasted notes bellow:


May 22nd: SG 1.088, 6 gallons, used mostly 60% vit c apple juice on bottles with concetrate. Used meta-k.And coffee filter on top. Note: Not much activity.
May 24th: Added airock. Added 2 tsb YN #2 and 1/2 tsb of YN 1#
May 25th: SG 1.082. Bubbles over last night and had to do 2 changes today.
May 26th: SG 1.072. Still smells kind of bad, but bubbles still going good.
May 28th: SG 1.060 (0.006 per day last 2 days).
May 30th: SG 1.043 (0.0085 per day last 2 days). Added 2 tsb YN #2 and 1/2 tsb of YN 1#
July 8th: SG 1.007 (0.0045 per day last 8 days). Still has bubbles every 2-3 seconds or so. Tasted a bit, tasted yeasty and sugary.
July 18th: SG 0.993 (0.0016 per day last 10 days). Cleared up a tad, still murky, still a little bit of bubbles in airlock and in wine. Tasted a tad weird (strong yeasty + sourish).

Your general problem may be the lack of oxygen. Yeast needs air to ferment and space to release the CO2 - airlocks will stress/suffocate them. Most everyone uses just a loose towel or loose lid over the top - mostly to keep out insects.

I always used an airlock because every batch worked (tho some tasted very sour), things only started to fail when the sugar contents went up.

I am apprehensive about keeping the airlock off for too long because I have my carboys in my kitchen area and worried something in the air might get into the wine.

Airlock only becomes necessary when the main ferment is done.

Almost all my batches ferment dry to around .990 within 6-7 days.

Mine above is 3 days away from being a month in and still not at 0.99, I wonder if mine is so much slower because lack of oxygen?

Maybe I will try another water ferment without any airlock and see how fast it goes as an experiment...

 

[buffalofrenchy]

Fascists like you are the reason I will leave this forum. You people don't love wine-making - you love power tripping over other people.

Don't tell me to quit being argumentative, I will uphold my right to resist oppression from fascist snobs like yourself - it is you who are persistently persecuting me here with your neurosis about what everyone SHOULD like.
...
You are not trying to help anyone - you are unasked and unwanted in trying to impose your snobbish fascist ideas on me.I've made it abundantly clear and yet you still persist , insulting me over and over again for not adhering to you particular version of insanity.
...
There is no science to personal preference you have a neurosis and a wish for power over others and traditional wine making will be what I want it to be not what you want it to be and I will use science for what purpose I want it not for your purpose.

No you still got it wrong - everyone should like their wine they way THEY like it not what you or I want.
Do you really understand that other human beings are not extensions of your ego?

You shouldn't be giving anyone "advice" when they are telling you they don't want it. Save the snob tripe about "tradition" and science" for the unsuspecting newbie.
...
Are you going to tell me with formulas and quadratic equations about what I'm supposed to like? I don't give a darn about flavors within flavors within flavours and twiddling drops of wine in my tongue for 20 years to tell the difference - you can stick that snob stuff up your empty bottle.
...
When something is delicious it is delicious , you don't make it better, - you just make it different. And a person can choose whether or not they want that difference or want to bother with it.

You want to do that snob stuff, you want to make specialty wines that take five years to produce just to find some arcane taste - fine - it's your prerogative - enjoy it as your personal "thing" but keep it to yourself don't impose it on others.
Helping people means helping them to do what they want , not what you want.


Go take a flying leap into a carboy and stop pestering me with your baloney.
...
You are not a wine guru,you don't love wine making, you don't accept what people do with this hobby, no one should listen to you. You are just playing a game of trying to use wine to feel superior to others and wine is your weapon for doing so.
And many others are doing this fascist thing here - that's why some people got fed up with the mission statement here and general attitudes and said so and got banned.
The idea of helping people to make the "best" wine is fascist and in-humanist because everyone has their own idea of what is best and it is an imposition to impose your own ideas of what is "best " on others - that is not love of a hobby , that is love of control.

Mine for instance will never involve aging something for five years to make "gourmet" snob wine. I detest the idea.

A humanistic mission statement is to help people enjoy all facets of wine making whatever they are doing and want to do.
...
When someone asks how to make a two handled corker work, the answer is not to slap them in the face and tell them they shouldn't use one and shouldn't be who they are, and should be using the top of the line model you , Mr. Rich guy has , oh Mr wonderful you (but you don't have that wineyard in France do you? ) that advice is 's not skill and that's not love of wine-making. A guru should know how to make every piece of equipment work form top to bottom and love every bit of it.

I'm fed up with guys like you ,you are prime social oppressors believing in your scientific and traditional right to be oppressive ... and I would take great pride in getting banned from here so I can find a forum with real people in it and a mission statement for loave of a hobby instead of being run by a snob Gestapo.

Wow that s way too long for me. Could someone summarize that for me?