Day of bottling, still cloudy, what should i do next

[tysfoot]

Hi,
I'm supposedly on the day of bottling my wine
I have been using the Kenridge white zinfendel 30 bottle kit

I adding the clearings 6 days ago as instructed but as i went to see the clarity in my wine today it was very cloudy, i couldn't see anything through the other side of the bottle.

So i need a bit of advice please


Should i leave it until it does clear even if it takes weeks and weeks

It does say in the instructions that if the wine hasnt degassed properly that the clearings may not be effective, im worried that this may be the case

if this is the case shall i continue to stir and whip the remainder of the wine to degass and let to settle again to see if that does the trick


Going back to degassing, now when i shake the bottle there are still small bubbles rising to the top, not many but when i do the shake test to a supermarket bottle of wine i still see bubbles so this is why im still confused if it has degassed

or shall i add another clearings in a few days to see if it clears

Also is it safe to stir again to see if it clears


SG is fine, temperature is 66 which i know is a bit low but i can't get the temp up as it is cold where i live, the only thing i could do is put a hot water bottle tied to it to bring the temp up but this way there will be a dip in temperature as my water bottle cools until i put more hot water in it........do you think i should do this to try and get it to clear...if it still matters at this stage


Your advice is greatly appreciated

Thanks

 

[Rocky]

Tysfoot, one thing for sure, do not bottle wine that is cloudy. It will only move the sediment to your bottle and it will always be in there. I would let the wine stand until it clears. You mentioned that you degassed and you also mentioned that your ambient temp is about 66 F. That temp is fine for clearing, but not for degassing. I like to de-gas my wines in the low to mid 70's F. Let it stand for a few weeks, be sure the airlock in on and full of sanitizing solution and just wait it out. If it does not clear in that time, you may have to hit it with another clearing agent.

 

[tysfoot]

Thanks for your reply....its just very frustrating as it says its a 30 day wine as was my last one but on my last batch it took over 4 months to get it clear

 

[tysfoot]

will racking off the remainder of the sediment off do anything...it does say to do that but only if bottling

 

[mmadmikes1]

Every time you rack, you loss wine. If it is not clear you will need to rack again , so wait until its clear

 

[Rocky]

Tysfoot, you will be fine. Have patience and understand that the times given in the directions are "estimates/averages" at best. Making wine does not hang on the hands of a clock. It is kind of like having a baby. Human gestation periods are considered normal anywhere from 37 to 42 weeks and actual times vary from that range.

 

[ibglowin]

Wine will also clear faster at warmer temps. Clearing is a chemical reaction. That said if your wine is sitting at 66F (19C) warm it up to ~74F (23C) and keep it there. I have had whites clear in 48 hours and some that took their own sweet time and took 30 days even with proper degassing.

Like others have said, you can't rush it into bottle. If its not clear you have to wait. It will just taste all that much better when it its in the bottle. Make sure you are topped up and the airlock is on and filled.

 

[winemaker_3352]

I agree with mike as well...

 

[saramc]

Can you access a heating pad, or a brew belt? While the kits indicate "30 day" that is under optimum fermentation conditions and no snags. The fact that you are at a cooler temperature delays the degassing process. Don't worry, it will happen, just will take some time and you will be happy that you did not rush to bottling.

 

[tysfoot]

Every time you rack, you loss wine. If it is not clear you will need to rack again , so wait until its clear

Hi, So your saying if it is not clear i will need to rack.

Will a gentle stir not help speed the process up slightly ?

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated

I understand what you are all saying about time being the best solution, and i now understand that the 30 day timing was tested during optimum conditions

Took a good 2 months for my wine to clear on my last batch which is frustrating but i suppose that's the way it goes sometimes

 

[ibglowin]

Stirring it up will put you back to square one so no. You will have to rack once more when it finally clears. You don't ant ANY sediment/fines in the carboy when you bottle or you risk stirring them up and into your wine. Warm it up as stated. Walk away and check on it every few days to monitor the progress.

 

[Rocky]

I don't want to beat this to death but I have read and always thought that wine cleared better at a lower rather than a higher temperature. I went back to my references and found in his book Kit Wineaking, The Illustrated Beginners's Guide to Making Wines From Concentrates (2009), Daniel Pambianchi, of whom there is no "whom-er," recommends letting the wine fine in a carboy with airlock attached, "in a cooler area at a temperature in the range 13 C-18 C (55 F-65 F)." (page 57)

I am always eager to learn and would like to hear reasons to do otherwise.

 

[tysfoot]

I don't want to beat this to death but I have read and always thought that wine cleared better at a lower rather than a higher temperature. I went back to my references and found in his book Kit Wineaking, The Illustrated Beginners's Guide to Making Wines From Concentrates (2009), Daniel Pambianchi, of whom there is no "whom-er," recommends letting the wine fine in a carboy with airlock attached, "in a cooler area at a temperature in the range 13 C-18 C (55 F-65 F)." (page 57)

I am always eager to learn and would like to hear reasons to do otherwise.

Really ...... So is this what you do Rocky, my temperature at the minute is 18c and i will struggle to get it past this so ill sit and wait and hope for the best

 

[ibglowin]

See post #7. On the off chance that CO2 is preventing clearing keeping it warm will aid with that. I have stared at quite a few carboys over the years that just sat there and laughed at me when the temp was 65 degrees. I warmed it up to 74 degrees (using a heating pad or brew belt) and in just a few days I could see a line forming with clear wine above and cloudy wine below. It moved an inch or two each day and was perfectly clear in a few weeks. If it is not clearing on its own easily in a cool environment what other options do you really have left to you?

 

[RCGoodin]

Ty, I think Mike's suggestion was to not rack at this time. Wait until it clears. If you keep racking you will continue to lose wine.

I was wondering if you could filter the wine. I do that at the time I'm bottling, however, it's already clear when I do that. I don't know if multiple filtering would hurt or help your batch. Anyone have comments on filtering to help the cloudiness?

 

[Minnesotamaker]

Thought I'd chime in with a couple of suggestions.
- a wine that hesitates to clear can be caused by trapped CO2. Degassing the wine will help it effectively drop out the particles in suspension. Warmer temps expedite the release of the CO2.
- once the CO2 has been expelled, the cooler temps should be fine for allowing the particles to settle.
- If you added a fining agent, and your wine still didn't clear, usually you can see the fining agent laying at the bottom of the carboy. When you degas your wine, you'll likely stir up this fining agent in the process. This shouldn't be a problem as it will settle again and hopefully will drag some of the particles down with it.
- another common problem with a wine that won't clear is that it is actually still slowly fermenting. What was the S.G. of the wine when you added your fining agent? If it wasn't at 0.996 or below, this might be your problem. If you have your wine in a slightly cooler area, the recommended schedule in your kit instructions won't likely apply. Cool temps can extend the days by 2-3 times before reaching your targets.

 

[Rocky]

Thanks, All. Very interesting discussion and it seems to match impirical evidence. If a wine is cloudy due to incomplete de-gassing, then warming it up can speed up clarifying by facilitating the release of gas. If it has been fully de-gassed and clarifying agents have been added, lower temperatures are recommended. I rarely have a problem with clearing and I believe it is due to fully de-gassing.

Here are some other question to ponder. What happens if one adds Chitosan before Kieselsol, which many instructions specifically forbid? And, if it is such a problem, why are some clarifiers a mixture of the two? Why do some instructions say to add them one right after the other and some say to wait at least an hour between adding the two? For the chemists out there, I know that Kieselsol works on one type of ion (positive or negative) and Chitosan works on the other, but which works on which?

 

[ibglowin]

After fermentation is over, cloudy wine contains many billions of very tiny negatively charged yeast cells. These yeast cells would take a very long time to settle out to the bottom of the carboy. Even if left for a long time, some of the microscopic yeast cells will not actually fall out. Clearing agents hasten the clearing of the wine by gathering the cells into larger clumps so that they form a solid sediment. Using clearing agents also helps to improve the flavor and aging ability of the wine (at least some circles think so).

Kieselsol, an inert silica gel that is negatively charged, is added to the wine. This builds up a strong static charge in the carboy of wine. Chitosan, a positively charged polymer, made from the de-acidified outer shells of crustaceans (Chitosan is non-allergenic) is then added to the wine. The negatively charged yeast cells and Kieselsol particles are instantly attracted to the positively charged Chitosan particles to form heavy clumps that fall rapidly to the bottom, leaving a brilliant wine.

If you add them backwards you won't build up the negative charge and the positively charged Chitsan may not work as well as it could have. It still may work, just not as fast or efficiently.

 

[Rocky]

Ah so, thank you, Master, for your enlightened guidance!

I sure wish I did not cut so many Chem classes! Who knew that I would need it some day?

 

[tysfoot]

Hi,
I posted this thread some months ago

I have left my wine in storage for about 3 months at room temperature, 12-14 degress but my wine is still very red and cloudy
I have added additional finning about 6 weeks ago and i have occasionally shaked the carboy but still nothing.
Shall i put it in an even colder enviroment 3-8 degrees outside or do you think i should bring the temperature right up to 20+ degress
and shall i add another finning agent

Any help would be great as i really eager to taste this wine and enjoy it

Thanks