confused about primary vs secondary

[dukesbb37]

Ok guys ive been reading and searching for an hour now... and im confused.

Ive hear that you dont need a secondary fermenter? Could i just mix everything and leave it in my bucket for a couple months?

Also... ive read i need to siphon my wine from the primary to the secondary (if i use one) because pouring it would introduce too much o2... but other things ive read said i need to stir the mix with the fruit in it... How does that not let in the o2?

 

[Stefani]

Interesting... Where did you read that?

 

[DasK]

You could theoretically leave it in the primary, sure.

But, that comes back to your second question about oxygen.

The yeast needs oxygen to thrive. Without it, your must basically goes anaerobic, the yeast stop reproducing and bacteria that thrive on oxygen deprived environments set up and spoil your wine.

In a way, the fermentation process is kind of a race between bacteria and yeast. But you're hopefully giving your yeast a head start with proper sanitation, energizers, pH levels, etc.

At some point the yeast will have done its job enough to create a pretty hostile environment for bacteria, but at that point it has slowed down itself, and it's time to protect the wine from the next enemy, which is oxygen.

Having wine in a bucket with a large surface area when the yeast has stopped producing so much C02 leaves the wine very exposed to oxygen, plus many plastics are O2 permeable meaning they'll let oxygen leak right through.

This is part of the point of racking into a secondary with a small neck. The yeast will finish off it's job of fermenting, and output enough C02 to fill the airspace in the carboy, thus protecting the wine.

So, yes in the beginning, by all means stir your must, introduce oxygen. Many people even cover their primaries with a towel. But as the fermentation process begins to wind down you have to begin protecting it from that very oxygen you were introducing.

 

[Minnesotamaker]

I think you'll find that there aren't many absolute single answers in wine making. Some people follow tradition, others take short cuts, some measure exactly, others kinda eyeball it. If you go to a wine tasting competition and taste 100 wines, you'll find that all are different. This is likely because of variance in ingredients and techniques. I use both a primary and a secondary, I believe there are benefits to using both. As for racking or pouring, I might use either depending on my situation. In most cases, I rack and avoid splashing and extra O2. If I have a problem in my wine that would benefit from some extra O2, then I would pour it.

The complexities that you are puzzling about is precisely why I like this hobby. There are so many variables that it's like a complicated puzzle. Mastering the puzzle and getting a good wine is an accomplishment you can be proud of.

 

[dukesbb37]

So I can just lay the lid on top of the primary... And stir daily until the first fermentation is done and then I attach a hose to siphon the wine into my Carboy with the airlock for 1-6 months. When do you know when to do the switch?

 

[roadwarriorsvt]

Lon is exactly right about there are no exacts in wine making! Wine, in different stages, needs or does not need O2. In the very beginning, the yeasts need O2 to flourish. Once its fermented dry, O2 is harmful and can oxidize a wine. Nothing in winemaking is 100% (argueably). I made my first batch of wine with only a primary bucket, transferring the wine in sanitized gallon containers so I could clean out the sediment, then back in the primary it went.

 

[Luc]

So I can just lay the lid on top of the primary... And stir daily until the first fermentation is done and then I attach a hose to siphon the wine into my Carboy with the airlock for 1-6 months. When do you know when to do the switch?

That is dependend on the wine you are making.

With whole fruit it is different as wine from juices.

When making wines from juices you can transfer when the vigorous fermentation is over. fermentation will be more slow and foaming is less. Then you can transfer.

When making wines from fresh fruit the point when to press the fuir and transfer is dependend on the kind of fruit you will be using.

I did an excessive line-up of articles on this on my web-log:

Start here:
http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2010/12/pulpgisten-deel-1-pulpfermenting-part-1.html


http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2011/01/pulpgisten-deel-2-pulpfermenting-part-2.html

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2011/01/pulpgisten-deel-3-pulpfermenting-part-3.html

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2011/02/pulpgisten-deel-4-pulpfermenting-part-4.html

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2011/02/pulpgisten-deel-5-pulpfermenting-part-5.html

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2011/03/pulpgisten-deel-6-pulpfermenting-part-6.html

and end here:

http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2011/04/pulpgisten-deel-7-pulpfermenting-part-7.html

Luc

 

[dukesbb37]

Ok so i read all those articles, very interesting i learned a lot. I know that there are no absolutes in winemaking but I still haven't even found a guideline.

So far i have read that i should transfer to the secondary....
-after 4-5 days
-when the cap sinks
-when SG reaches 1020

And i know all these answers are "kinda right kinda wrong" but is there a general rule for any of these?

Also does anyone have a (preferably simple) recipe for a sweet strawberry wine

 

[sly22guy]

You really need to try it and pick one that works best for you. As for me i usually will ferment down to 1.002 -1.000 and then rack to a secondary. then it will sit for 1-2 months then i will rack and stabilize and backsweeten. then it will sit for 3 month intervals until it is crystal clear then i will bottle.

But thats how i do it, we all have our different little ways of doing things.

Id really suggest a secondary because if you leave the pulp and spent yeast in the bottom of the primary for a couple of months you will get some off flavors in your wine. Not to mention you can start another batch once the one is transferred to the secondary!!!

 

[Midwest Vintner]

-when SG reaches 1020

This is one of the more solid points. You don't want to transfer too early and inhibit the yeast (creating more problems), but the sooner you trasfer, the more likely you will keep your wine from any oxidation/spoilage. That said, if it is fermenting fast enough, it really doesn't matter if you do it at 1.020 or 1.000. If it is moving slow, you might want to transfer at 1.010 or so and add some nutrient and/or stir it well. There is no set standard, but a range that will give guide you to what you think works best for you.

 

[SBWs]

There is no one right way to make wine. The fun is trying different things, sometimes you end up with sometimes you get something that does this to you and then sometimes you get this just hope you don't get this

 

[robie]

This has all probably confused you by now. If you are making a kit, just follow the instructions included with the kit. If making fruit wine, the recipe should tell you when and if to rack from primary to secondary. If fresh/frozen grapes, the internet or WINE MAKING magazine should help you.

Just relax and have fun. There just isn't an exact formula you can follow. Wine is pretty forgiving, anyway; it is pretty hard to ruin a batch of wine unless you neglect it for months.

 

[Midwest Vintner]

Just relax and have fun. There just isn't an exact formula you can follow. Wine is pretty forgiving, anyway; it is pretty hard to ruin a batch of wine unless you neglect it for months.

Unless you have bad sanitation or the yeast lives on. And then you have many time bombs. Been there.