Concord wine problems

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rbqricchi

RBQChicken
Joined
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Location
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In mid-September I mixed up a batch of Concord grape wine from concentrate that I mail-ordered from a farm in New York state. I diluted it to an original gravity of 1.092. The concentrate has no preservatives, no acids, nothing added to it.
At the time, I didn’t have the means to test the acidity of the must but I knew that northern climate grapes are usually high in acidity so I added no acid.
I intended to make a dry, fruity Concord wine of about 12 to 12.5% abv.

I had 5.25 gallons of must in a 6.5 gallon carboy, with appropriate amounts of pectic enzyme and yeast nutrient. I used Premiere Classic (formerly called Montrachet) yeast and fermented in my basement which was around 62F at the time, and I had a (probably irrational) fear that it would have a hard time fermenting at that temperature, even though it’s rated for as low as 55F. I pitched two packets of yeast, re-hydrated, with no oxygenation of the must. I wrapped the carboy in a blanket.

After a day or so I had yeast gushing through the airlock. I cleaned everything up, sanitized the opening of the carboy and the airlock and this time left the carboy unwrapped.
The next day it puked more yeast. Cleaned up again and after that things settled down.

After a month and a half (Now it’s the beginning of November in Michigan’s U.P.) the fermentation was so slow I thought I’d rack to a five gallon secondary so I’d have no airspace in the carboy while it aged. I was surprised to find that it hadn’t fermented all the way out, it was at 1.006.
I figured it would slowly continue to ferment dry and decided to wait two months before checking it again.

I recently checked the gravity and it hadn’t budged at all, still 1.006. The temperature in the basement is now 58F. I had recently picked up an acid titration kit and checked the total acidity of the wine and found it to be .9%.

Montrachet wine yeast is supposed to be good down to 55F, so I thought I’d be okay there. Could the high acidity have inhibited the yeast? Or, maybe I lost too much yeast in the first two days when it was puking out through the airlock?


The aroma of this wine, to me, was exactly like Concord grape juice. Beautiful, fruity...I like it. The taste was very nice, too, even though it’s slightly sweet. I’m not a fan of sweet wines. I suppose it helps balance the acidity. There was a slight drying sensation, either from the acidity or tannins. Not off-putting, but there.

My first thought was I should just rack the wine, sorbate and K-metabisulfite it, and age it for a couple more months and then bottle.
Then I thought maybe I should bring it upstairs to warm it up a bit and maybe it would start to ferment again. If it fermented dry, then perhaps I could store it cold for a few weeks to drop out some of the tartaric acid.

If the fermentation problem was because of the temperature, would it restart if brought upstairs where it’s about 68F, or has it been too long?

Could the high acidity be the cause of the stalled ferment?

Any thoughts from the experts on this forum will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
The cooler temperatures would definitely slow down fermentation. Before adding chemicals I would warm the carboy by moving it or using a heat pad or belt and see what happens. (I would use a heat pad only because moving that amount of wine doesn't appeal to me. :D)

As far as acid affecting fermentation? Maybe. I've had successful ferments with a pH close to 3.0. Each batch of wine is unique. It's like an orchestra with so many different pieces, all working together towards a (hopefully) wonderful goal.
 
Okay, I think I will haul it upstairs (like BigDave, I don't relish the thought of carrying it up 14 steps, but I'm gonna do it), let it warm up for a day and then stir the yeast back into suspension. If that doesn't re-start fermentation, will adding some fresh rehydrated yeast get her going, or will it be too big a shock to the yeast, dumping it into 11.5% alcohol?
Thank you all for your responses!
 
I would put a heat belt on it instead of moving it upstairs, but that's because I have one. Then, if that didn't do it I would pitch EC-1118.

I have to second FlamingoEmporium, fermenting in a bucket has been foolproof for me. I wait until the SG has dropped below 1.000 then transfer to secondary with a breathable stopper or airlock. Usually within 9 days of pitching. There is no fuss, or mess. Yeast like a lot of O2 in the beginning and it is easy to mix in in a bucket. I have not yet had a stuck or slow ferment in 100's of gallons of must and wash.
 
Hmmm,, just read up on the EC-1118 yeast. Maybe if I pitched that I wouldn't have to bring the wine upstairs? Would I rehydrate and pitch the whole package?
Thanks!
 
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Oh, about the open bucket primary - do you cover the bucket with a cloth, or just loosely place the lid on?
 
Oh, about the open bucket primary - do you cover the bucket with a cloth, or just loosely place the lid on?
loose lid. Some use a towel, but the lid can get splattered from all the yeast activity and foaming. It's easy to use and move aside to stir, and to clean and sanitize, too.

The going comment on here is that EC-1118 will ferment a rock. It is very aggressive and will push through in unforgiving musts. Low nutrient, etc. You could rehydrate for better odds, but I have never done that with 1118. I have always sprinkled dry, but I have never restarted a ferment. Perhaps others can chime in. I would use the whole pack.

Brew belts and pads are in the $25 range and would likely be a worthwhile purchase if you plan to continue to make wine, especially in the basement.
 
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Concord was one of the first wines I made. I called that batch "Train Wreck" because that's how I was in making it. The wine turned out great, despite my best efforts to derail it. The SG was too high, the pH yo-yo'd, the fermentation stuck a few times, I didn't have enough kmeta then too much... it's amazing something came out of what I tried to do.

That being said, you're in a good place both here and with what you're doing.

If you 'want' it to ferment dry, I concur with warming it up a little and if you need to add some more yeast, using EC-1118 will finish it off. Definitely use a bucket with a loose towel or loose lid on the top in primary fermentation and then rack to something with an airlock down near 1.010 or so until it finishes and the SG doesn't move for several days. Since you're now below that, you could airlock it. If you're going to add yeast and restart things, I might wait so that you don't get another volcano. You're going to need to start considering head space soon though.

In terms of acids, I haven't tested TA in quite some time, preferring to go by taste and pH. I'm on that curve I suppose. You should be under 4.0 and there's been discussion about where a good spot is (3.2, 3.4, 3.6...). Some of it is preference and what you like and where you want it to be. Adjust kmeta with pH range when you finally add it. If you're going to back sweeten, wait some significant time (I would wait at least six months to a year) and/or use potassium sorbate.

You may need to bulk age concords for some time to get them where you want them (a year or more). I also add some glycerin for mouthfeel. While you're waiting, make some skeeterpee to hold you off from drinking those that are bulk aging.

Look through here at some of the forum postings, and on More Wine for some good information and processes. Bryan (Winemaker81) has a great site of information as well ~

Bryan's Wine & Beer Making Site
MoreWine! wine making manuals
 
Oh, about the open bucket primary - do you cover the bucket with a cloth, or just loosely place the lid on?
Either. I prefer a towel, but both work.

While I have successfully fermented wines at 58 F (took 3 weeks), warming the must might be the better choice. However, carrying a full carboy up steps is NOT high on my personal list of things to do, so making an overnight starter is an option.

I'd point you to my site, but the software crashed hard during a software update -- site is down and it appears I'll have to reload from a backup. i haven't lost anything, but it's a real PITA. Hopefully I'll have that done tonight.
 
Well, you certainly got a lot of good advice!
My basement is cold like yours. This time of year I do my primary upstairs - I want to get some alcohol in there for microbial protection - and then I move to the basement for secondary and bulk. I have a few in secondary now and they are super slow - it almost looks like there's no activity. I understand your hesitation about moving (and that's why my larger batches are in 3-gallon carboys) but I would still consider warming your carboy.

To give a little push - I use my heat pads for wine, for kombucha, and for seed starting.
 
Thanks everyone. The EC-1118 is tempting, but I wonder if it might squash the flavor and aroma I'm getting right now from the wine? Or is that not a concern when I'm only trying to ferment the last 6 or 7 gravity points. I would like to get it down to a dry finish but not if it risks losing any flavor/color/aroma.
 
Thanks everyone. The EC-1118 is tempting, but I wonder if it might squash the flavor and aroma I'm getting right now from the wine? Or is that not a concern when I'm only trying to ferment the last 6 or 7 gravity points. I would like to get it down to a dry finish but not if it risks losing any flavor/color/aroma.
It won't take away what you already have. Adding a yeast such as EC-1118 to finish a ferment is a known tactic.
 
David has posted an excellent graphic of cell growth
As I got caught in this rabbit hole, I found the following diagram and study. Thank you @Raptor99 for this information. Immensely helpful! I took the information from the study you cited and added the phases to the top of the below study. I believe that they are counting cells as being present, even if not alive, which is why the death phase does not show a decline in cell numbers.

View attachment 96883

Main phases of wine fermentation. Evolution of the main fermentation parameters during wine fermentation on a synthetic medium containing 200 g/L-1 glucose/fructose and 330 mg/L-1 assimilable nitrogen, with the commercial wine strain EC1118 at 24°C. Dark blue: fermentation rate; light blue: ethanol; red: cell number; green: nitrogen; and purple: sugars.

Marsit, Souhir & Dequin, Sylvie. (2015). Diversity and adaptive evolution of Saccharomyces wine yeast: A review. FEMS yeast research. 15. 10.1093/femsyr/fov067.
* 1118 is a strong yeast and a good choice (best) for restarting. Montracket sometimes produces H2S it needs excellent yeast nutrition. ,,, from the graphic yeast nitrogen is low when you drop below 1.040 a starter in sugar water might get over this.
* yeast die off in part because they are building up toxic alcohol and CO2, it would be unusual to have yeast die off because the temp was 60F. I occasionally run a refrigerator at 50/ 10C to do a low temp ferment.
* yeast loss through the air lock doesn’t mean anything about healthy yeast. Some yeast are dirty / foam a lot.
* From the graphic again, two packets of yeast versus one packet didn’t make any measurable difference in cell count by the time nitrogen is limiting. ,,,, Nutrients including oxygen and sterols are more important for a healthy ferment. ,,, I have switched to Fermaid organic nitrogen because it is balanced/ does better yeast nutrition.
* Once the yeast have stopped actively producing CO2 there is risk of oxidation. I keep air out once I drop below 1.010 or 1.020. Oxidized ethyl alcohol is called acetaldehyde.
* sweet flavors (residual sugar and alcohol) balance against acid and tannin. You can have a dryer tasting wine by adding more tannin, you can have a dryer tasting wine by adding more acid.
 
Thanks again to everyone. I think I'll go the 1118 route today, and when it's fermented the rest of the way I'll store it in the fridge for a few weeks to drop the acid some.
 
Thanks everyone. The EC-1118 is tempting, but I wonder if it might squash the flavor and aroma I'm getting right now from the wine? Or is that not a concern when I'm only trying to ferment the last 6 or 7 gravity points. I would like to get it down to a dry finish but not if it risks losing any flavor/color/aroma.
I'll back up what @winemaker81 said, it shouldn't take away what you have. I start my dessert wines with 71B and switch to step feeding and 1118. The glycerol and fruitiness of 71B doesn't seem to be affected at all. I want those qualities present because 1118 will kill 71B. (Tip o' the hat for that, Bryan!)
 
My 5 gallon carboy is filled right to the base of the neck. The 1118 has been in there for 5 hours or so now. I'm wondering if I'll have a problem with gushing or, since the gravity is only 1.006 and the wine is currently at 61F, and there was no aeration or splashing, maybe by the time the yeast wakes up to gushing force the remaining sugars will already be consumed?
Wishful thinking, or should I rack it to a 6.5 gallon carboy now?
 
My 5 gallon carboy is filled right to the base of the neck.
Visualize a purple Mount Vesuvius.

I ferment in open containers, typically no more than 3/4 full, to avoid overflows. When moving to a closed secondary container prior to fermentation complete, I always leave 4 to 10 inches of headspace.

Although it's entirely possible you'll have a subtle final ferment time ... there is a corollary to Murphy's Law that says a purple Mount Vesuvius is in your immediate future. Rack to a 6.5 gallon carboy.
 
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