Mosti Mondiale Color of Merlot and Cab

[hartm]

I am currently bulk aging a MM All-Juice Merlot and MM All-Juice Cab. I did a tasting of them the other day when I was adding more K-Met. They each taste fine, but I noticed that the color is not dark for either of them. Is this typical of these kits???








Is it an issue with the concentration of the wine? I know when you barrel age you lose water which concentrates the wine (and probably leads to a deeper color). This won't happen with a glass carboy.

 

[JimCook]

Depending on your definition of dark, you will find this to be a common trait for any wines that you cannot directly control skin contact. As the skin holds the vast majority of color for grapes, the longer the skins are exposed to the juice the deeper the color extraction. Since a kit starts with essentially a stock base that is not modified in the kit instructions, there is little that will affect the color. Also, remember that any solids that have fallen out of solution will not contribute to blocking the light from travelling through the wine, giving the wine a more clear look that can also contribute toa sense of 'lightness' in the color.


Having had the same questions in my winemaking career, I noticed as well that the wines that I have aged in the barrel do not get a noticeable color boost, even though the wines are being concentrated gently over time. The only way that I have found to increase the color intensity of a kit wine is with exposure to grape skins. I have used the pomace of wine made from grapes to help boost a kit and it definitely increased the color (and flavor and tannin profile). I used four gallons of pressed skins, so if you're thinking that tossing in a grape pack at 1.5L will do the trick, it may not have as much of a color-boosting effect as you would hope for.


Do note that there is a range of color intensities of commercial wines of the same type of grapes, so I wouldn't sweat the color especially if the taste ends up where you enjoy it. I made a blueberry wine that by the color looks like it would be weak but the flavor intensity surprised me.


- Jim

 

[Wade E]

The smaller kits arent as dark as the bigger kits as they have less total dissolved solids and are watered down more.

 

[grapeman]

Wade that is true but not the case this time. These are All-Juice kits, so they are all juice and not concentrated.


The key is as Jim says, the lack of deep color is a function of preparing these kits for selling. They aren't fermented on the skins, since they come pressed and ready to ferment. Many of my hybrids can develop excessive colors so I need to limit how long I can ferment with the skins. If they are a really deeply pigmented variety I may press after only 3-5 days instead of 10 days to two weeks like some.


Regardless of the color, these are pretty good tasting kits. They aren't quite as full bodied as some of the premium kits, but very good for the price.

 

[gaudet]

I've read that the k-meta can also effect the color, but I rather doubt that the dose for preservatives could be your culprit, but it is a possibility

 

[hartm]

I neglected to consider the skins. That makes a lot more sense. I guess if you have a kit that comes with a grape pack the color will be a lot deeper (along with a more complex flavor).


Maybe I will purchase a grape pack when I do these again next time.

 

[Wade E]

In my opinion these kits are great for most varietals but if youre looking for the big dark color and also the big tannin wines then the high end kits are the ticket.

 

[JimCook]

Hartm,


Remember, the grape packs are only 1.5liters and that volume is comprised of skins, sugar, seeds, pulp, and some stems. When I have made wine from grapes, I have ended up with 4 gallons of pressed skins after discarding a good chunk of seeds at the bottom of the fermenters.


4 gallons x 5 liters/gallon = 20 liters of skins. That's a massive difference between the 1.5 liters of skins and other solids in a grape pack. Based on the grape packs kits that I have made and this math, I don't believe that there will be a significant change in color with the addition of a grape pack. The AllJuice Petite Sirah that I made using the Mosti AllGrape pack did not seem to make a wine that had more color than the other AllJuice comparable wines that I had made. The WE Crushendo Cab that I added 4 gallons of Cabernet Sauvignon pomace had a marked increase in color intensity, among other things.


As Wade notes, the higher-end kits seem to produce the best color. Of the kits that I have made, the darkest were the WE International Selection French Cabernet Sauvignon and the Mosti Mondiale Masters Outback Shiraz. Even Meglioli kits have shown what I would term as lighter color intensity than comparable commercial wines.


And again, I must stress that if the flavor is to your liking, then give some forgiveness to the color. There are some sacrifices that need to be made in order to be able to make wine from grape-based products any time you want throughout the year instead of only in the Fall season, for instance. The kits are modified from what you would receive with fresh grapes to provide a very reliable and quite consistent product from kit to kit that resists spoilage and still provides a wine that ends up in the style of the advertised product.


With kit winemaking, several variables have been removed from the winemaking equation - this is one of the things that helps kits to be successful the vast majority of times they are made. Compare those success ratios to those of fresh grapes and they won't be as high. The color intensity is part of that trade off. Personally, if I find a wine to be light in color but full in taste, I don't care that much about the color. I can't taste color, after all.

- Jim

 

[Bartman]

Ahhh, Jim, if you can't taste color, you're just not trying hard enough.

 

[JimCook]

Bart,


*snaps his fingers* You're right. I'll practice this weekend on a vertical of Cotes du Rhone wines and see if I can't get that wonderful bright red color into flavor.

- Jim

 

[Waldo]

Ahhh, Jim, if you can't taste color, you're just not trying hard enough.

Never tasted color Bart but in days gone by I can well remember hearing colors and seeing music

 

[Goodfella]

I noticed that myh blackberry and Blueberry Ports have darkened with time. (or I might be crazy). But I honestly think they have changed quite a bit.

 

[Wade E]

I know as the wine clears it can go from bright to very dark and then as it ages color can fall out and thats why they make products to prevent this. Youll see it in lots of even commercial wine where the bottle is stained, its actually hard to clean sometimes.

 

[Goodfella]

What product do they mainlyuse for this?

 

[Wade E]

Stabivin, it is a product by Scotts Labs and here is a link to it. Look down near the bottom of the page. If you need some George can probably get some for ya, He gets the Tancor and Tancor Grand Cru which is an awesome tannin product by them.
http://www.scottlabsltd.com/products/fermentation/generaltools.asp#finingtools

 

[Goodfella]

Yeah.... I use Grand cru.


I will check out the Stabivin

 

[grapeman]

I have access to a variety of grapes at the trial that will add color to anything! It was a misidentified variety.We aren't sure what it is. I made wine from it one year. It stains the bottle and anything it touches. Anybody drinking it looks like those tablets you can get kids to show where they missed brushing. Dring a small glass and your teeth are blue. I wonderif that product is made from something like that?

 

[Wade E]

The product Im talking about doesnt add color, it prevents the color from falling out or falling out as much. The main ingredient is Gum Arabic.

 

[grapeman]

I getcha now Wade. I assumed you meant it added color to the wine since you said it stains the bottle. Wrong of me to assume.......... I will just go stand in the corner now

 

[Wade E]

Thats alright, 1/2 or more of the time you are correcting me so alls good!