RJ Spagnols Change in kit labeling

[taobrad]

I just picked up the latest RJS catalogue from the local wine store. When I compared it to the previous catalogue, now a couple of years old, I noticed the names for many of the kits have the word "style" appended to them.

For instance, instead of a Syrah it's now a Syrah Style.

Can anyone shed some light on this change? Does it mean the juice isn't necessarily Syrah but contains some other type of grape to produce a style like Syrah?

Cheers

 

[wineh]

Although I believe they can still use varietal names (Syrah, Shiraz, Cabernet etc.) some names have become protected (it involves lawyers and courts). It started in France with names like Bordeaux and spread. Rioja for example is a blend of Tempranillo and Cabernet Sauvignon, and it's name is protected. Another example would be Port : unless it came from Portugal ( Duoro valley actually), it has to be called Port Style.

 

[sour_grapes]

That was my thought, too, Wineh. However, I checked RJS's website, and they seem to put a "Style" after nearly everything: http://www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/Wine-Shop/Red

"Australia Shiraz" Style - Vino del Vida

"Chile Cabernet Merlot" Style - Vino del Vida World Tour

Argentina Malbec Syrah Style - Grand Cru International

etc.

 

[wineh]

That was my thought, too, Wineh. However, I checked RJS's website, and they seem to put a "Style" after nearly everything: http://www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/Wine-Shop/Red

"Australia Shiraz" Style - Vino del Vida

"Chile Cabernet Merlot" Style - Vino del Vida World Tour

Argentina Malbec Syrah Style - Grand Cru International

etc.

Sure enough, they have. So I visited WinExpert's site, and they currently only refer to "style" for Amarone, Brunello, Rioja, Icewine etc. that may be name protected. Same with Vineco.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Its probably a CYA move.

 

[Rocky]

I believe I read that wine producers or governments from the traditional regions protested the used of words like Barolo, Chianti, et al. just as the French did years ago at the use of "Champagne" being used for sparkling wine. I think the important point is that the grapes used to make the various kits are the same variety as the wine they are emulating but they cannot use the actual name because that describes a wine from that region. This started happening about a year ago.

 

[jsiddall]

I think the name changes are very significant. You can replace the word "style" with the meaning "it is not". The one thing you can be sure of is if it says "syrah style" then it contains something other than syrah. Other than names of styles or regions which are protected (ex: Amarone) the rest of the high end RJS kits do not use the name style. I don't believe any varietal names are (or can be) protected.

 

[DoctorCAD]

I think the name changes are very significant. You can replace the world "style" with the meaning "it is not". The one thing you can be sure of is if it says "syrah style" then it contains something other than syrah. Other than names of styles or regions which are protected (ex: Amarone) the rest of the high end RJS kits do not use the name style. I don't believe any varietal names are (or can be) protected.

So if you like the taste of syrah wine and you make a "syrah style" kit...and you like it...who gives a crap if it has 90% syrah and 10% shoe dirt. As long as it tastes like the syrah you wanted.

Do you think that up until now that all kits were 100% pure varital juice? I dont'.

Heck, even so-called pure varitals of fine wines are sometimes allowed a percentage of other grapes.

 

[jsiddall]

So if you like the taste of syrah wine and you make a "syrah style" kit...and you like it...who gives a crap if it has 90% syrah and 10% shoe dirt. As long as it tastes like the syrah you wanted.

Do you think that up until now that all kits were 100% pure varital juice? I dont'.

Heck, even so-called pure varitals of fine wines are sometimes allowed a percentage of other grapes.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with "style" wines. In fact, I think the majority of what I have made have been styles. Actually, I applaud what RJS is doing. I would like all manufacturers to use "style" to differentiate pure varietals from blends and other flavoring techniques. There is nothing wrong with being truthful about their product.

 

[NoSnob]

I think the name changes are very significant. You can replace the word "style" with the meaning "it is not". The one thing you can be sure of is if it says "syrah style" then it contains something other than syrah. Other than names of styles or regions which are protected (ex: Amarone) the rest of the high end RJS kits do not use the name style. I don't believe any varietal names are (or can be) protected.

I don't think using "style" after a name has anything whatsoever to do with whether there is or is not juice from that listed varietal. So "Amarone Style" means it likely has Amarone juice in it, or tastes a bit like Amarone, but is not made according to Italy's proscribed method.

As I see it, the only thing you can be sure of when you buy a wine kit is that it has some kind of juice with which you can make something called wine. Wine kit makers have taken broad latitude in naming their kits, but they have run into legal problems in some cases. It has obviously been those legal suits (or the threat thereof) which have led to their adding the "style" to the label.

Apparently the laws applying to juice content in wine kits are quite liberal. I suspect that means they can call a kit Cabernet Sauvignon if it has only a small amount in it. But don't expect it to have minimum of 75% Cab Sauv juice just because wine labeling laws require that. Juice labeling laws are regulated as an agricultural product, not wine.

If we are satisfied with the end result, maybe none of this matters. There's a lot of hoo doo & phony baloney associated with wine too!

NS

 

[taobrad]

I looked into this a little more after posting the original question and discovered there are no regulations or industry standards for labelling wine kits and there never have been. So adding the word "style" to varietal names changes nothing for us as consumers.

Because these kits are sold as juice the only requirement is they be labelled as grape juice concentrate. Also, a kit labelled Syrah or Syrah Style is not required to contain a minimum percentage of Syrah varietal.

Originally, I was a little indignant at this lack of disclosure but, after reading everyone's comments I tend to agree with those who say, "who cares" as long as we can make wine we like. I would also add, "who cares" as long as we can make wines that are repeatable. Since we don't know what is in these kits there is a potential for the blend to change and produce a different result. However, if a kit producer wants to build loyalty it seems unlikely they would allow this to happen.

As a couple of members mentioned, the "style" appellation may be a CYA issue as the European Union appears to be behind a worldwide movement to restrict labelling, not just on wine but on all region specific foods...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geog...products_with_PDO.2FPGI.2FTSG_classifications

All that said, I would be more likely to support a producer who disclosed the percentage of the main varietal on the label.

 

[tonyt]

Cellar Craft actually stated this a couple years back about their Red Mt Trio LE kit
" This offering has been styled by our Washington supplier to mimic his most successful blend: 50% Cabernet; 35% Syrah and 15% Merlot".
That's pretty specific. Too bad that's not done often. Also too bad that kit isn't still available . . . it was/is phenomenal.

 

[H2O]

Mosti Mondiale did the same thing this year with their Meglioli kits. Barolo is now Nebbiolo. Amarone is now Amorosso. Same wines just different names.

 

[NoSnob]

Cellar Craft actually stated this a couple years back about their Red Mt Trio LE kit
" This offering has been styled by our Washington supplier to mimic his most successful blend: 50% Cabernet; 35% Syrah and 15% Merlot".
That's pretty specific. Too bad that's not done often. Also too bad that kit isn't still available . . . it was/is phenomenal.

It is indeed informative to know what a supplier to Cellar Craft found to be his most successful blend. I believe what CC was actually saying was that the CC kit was made to MIMIC that supplier's successful blend, not necessarily to repeat those proportions, interesting as that may be. It was the taste CC was going after, not necessarily the exact proportions. That supplier may sell his cab-syrah-merlot blend to a dozen different wineries who bottle it with a dozen different names. To the supplier, that meant it was successful -- it was profitable.

But a wine kit manufacturer buying that blend has to decide what to call it. And, as we have noted, they can call it pretty much anything they want to. CC called it Red Mountain Trio. The name hints at a Cab Sauv but the juice may not even have come from Red Mountain, nor did it have to. [Incidentally the Red Mountain (Washington) AVA is neither red nor is it a mountain!]

We tend to pay inordinate attention to the science of winemaking (details, techniques, numbers, etc.) when clearly the art of winemaking pays big dividends too.

NS

 

[fuse]

I brew a lot of things; beer, wine, tea...and biodiesel.

This may be a bit off-topic, but I have a problem with foodstuffs containing glycerin. This is the by-product of biodiesel production, and the world market is saturated with the gooey stuff.

I have been noticing it showing up more and more, in things like candy bars and wine kits (maybe it was always there?). Personally, since I handle the stuff (as well as other crap like mono- and diglycerides), I would rather not ingest the stuff.

In Canada, the Harper government has been quietly eroding food regulations (as well as dismantling the country). This is a time to fight for accurate food labeling, not make comments like "if we like it, who cares if it contains show dirt". In Canada, again, people and animals have been dying because of poor sanitation practices and poor regulations for animal feed. It is getting harder and harder to make ethical consumer choices based on labels; "Made In Canada" now means something like 75% of a foods content can be made elsewhere.

In this sense, the homebrew beer community is miles ahead of us wine makers. They have the Bavarian Purity Law as a benchmark; nothing but water, malt, hops and yeast in the product!

 

[baitbucket]

I just noticed the name change myself, mostly because last year I had bought an Eclipse Barolo kit which I didn't get around to starting till a couple weeks ago and for some reason I went to look the kit up online again and discovered the change. I hear the kit is wonderful though, probably won't taste a drop of it for a year (that's the plan). I've never had Barolo in my life and part of the fun of wine making for me is to get to experience wines (some of which I could never afford to buy by the bottle anyway) from all over the world that I've never had before on a (dare I say) intimate level throughout the process of making the kit. I'm curious though what the actual labeling rules are, can "Barolo" only be placed on a bottle of true Barolo and nothing else? Is the reason "Barolo" can't be on a kit because the kit isn't even wine yet at the point of sale much less finished wine or is it because it's not even really Nebbiolo grape juice from the Barolo region? If the reason is the later then I have to say I'm disappointed a least a little. Would have been nice to know that up front so that it could have been a factor in my decision making. However, all a kit consumer can do is take the kit manufacturer's word for it which is something we do anytime we buy just about anything. It's kind of the same as the essential oil market if any of you are familiar with that. Anyway I'm sure I'll love the kit and I've taken great care in preparing it which has in turn provided me with lots of wine making entertaining hobby time so Nebbiolo or not I'll probably get my monies worth by the time the last bottle is drank. Will this all make me question the price of higher end kits going forward? Probably yes, maybe, I'll let you know in a year!

 

[fuse]

Hmmm, I don't know about your statement: "However, all a kit consumer can do is take the kit manufacturer's word for it which is something we do anytime we buy just about anything."
Here in Canada, food regulations are fairly robust - although currently being weakened by the Harper Government ("Made In Canada" food can now have something like 25% made in, say, China. GMO, irradiation, and certain preservatives related to MSG have managed to lobby outside of labeling laws, but most food labels are very accurate. In Canada, anyways.

 

[grapezilla]

I would think that's because I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the EU to use such naming, port can only come from the Douro valley and has to be made the proper way etc. I think by law I can call my Barolo as a product of Finland as it's 75% Finnish raw ingredients (water) as well as fermented in Finland and you can stretch it pretty much. There's Vodkas now that are marketed here as Finnish but are just Danish ethanol watered down locally.

 

[Floandgary]

So with "full disclosure" sitting on the sidelines could one presume or conclude that even the experts, you know the ones whose opinions drive the markets, are sampling who knows what?? Some years ago I ran across the legalese term "reasonable expectation" in the favor of the end-user of a product. Purists certainly have an issue, but for most of the rest of us our tastebuds do the talkin"

 

[GaDawg]

If you buy from The Winemakers Toy Store you get a chance to choose and make labels and they are free with purchase!
http://www.finevinewines.com/default.asp