Black Currant Con. Sorbate Question

[jimmyjames23]

I have 1L black currant concentrate that I usually use in my wines. I've been using it for a while now and it imparts a hint of black currant when 250ml is added to 27L juice.
I would like to make black current elderberry wine. The problem is (as you can see from the picture) it contains k-meta and Sorbate. I've never had a problem using it as an additive but I'm not sure how the sorbate will react with my Montrachet when I'm using the black currant concentrate only. I was thinking of adding water until it reaches 1.080 and then let it sit a few days to dissipate the sorbate.
Recommendations?

 

[jimmyjames23]

I think I'm going to boil 1 L of water, add 1 L of blackcurrant concentrate together in a bucket and hopefully cook off the sorbate.

 

[cpfan]

Although K-meta will dissipate, I don't believe that sorbate will. Boiling I don't know about, but don't recall it ever being mentioned.

Good luck, Steve

 

[jimmyjames23]

I'm gonna keep keeping it yeast until all the sorbate is absorbed into the yeast as per Jack Kellers instructions.

 

[jimmyjames23]

Feeding* not keeping

 

[Arne]

Thanks for changing that. I was kinda going huh?? Keep us informed how this works out for you. Arne.

 

[jimmyjames23]

Well I just activated the yeast 4 hours ago and pitched it a few minutes ago along with nutrient.
Yesterday I made the mix at 1.080 and added 8 L concord. I added pectic enzyme and let it sit for 14 hrs before pitching.
2 1/2L water to every 1L of "Ribena Black Currant Concentrate" yields a SG of 1.080.
Gonna wait till the yeast starts (if?) before I add the elderberries.
Fingers crossed.

 

[cpfan]

Well I just activated the yeast 4 hours ago and pitched it a few minutes ago along with nutrient.
Yesterday I made the mix at 1.080 and added 8 L concord. I added pectic enzyme and let it sit for 14 hrs before pitching.
2 1/2L water to every 1L of "Ribena Black Currant Concentrate" yields a SG of 1.080.
Gonna wait till the yeast starts (if?) before I add the elderberries.
Fingers crossed.

Hopefully that dilutes the sorbate concentration enough to get the yeast going.

Steve

 

[jimmyjames23]

Ill give the Montrachet 24 hrs to get going. If nothing happens I may pitch a more fruit robust yeast.
Yeast recommendations?

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

The British first boil the Ribena before trying to ferment it to deactivate the sorbate. Looza sells a good black currant juice without sorbate that makes a good wine. I like the Ribena in ports as a topper on the last racking to backsweeten and add some cassis flavor. Good luck, fermenting Ribena can be a challenge. WVMJ

 

[saramc]

www.homewinery.com also offers a black currant concentrate. They sell the concentrates for gallon batches by phone, but the 64oz ones are available online and make a 5-gal batch. Good stuff. Very reasonable prices and shipping.

 

[seth8530]

I feel like if you were to make a really strong starter you could overcome the sorbate. This thinking comes from the collective experiences of many new winemakers who try and use sorbate to stop fermentation who end up with bottle bombs. Ie Sorbate is really great for stopping renewed fermentation, but a really hungry and active fermentation should be able to make it.

Also, If you feel like it you could try the advice of first pitching bread yeast in with it to "adsorb" the sorbate However, I am not sure if that is really how it works.

 

[seth8530]

BTW nice article on the issue

https://mycotopia.net/forums/trip-inn/58550-cider-potassium-sorbate.html

 

[jimmyjames23]

Well I've achieved fermentation. It's pretty weak right now. I racked the BC after the Montrachet did nothing for 24 hrs. There was a small amount of pink dead yeast at the bottom.
I then made a 12 hr starter from K1-V1116 and inverse sugar.
Now I've got a rather lethargic batch brewing.
Ill probably make a Welches/inverse starter and top up. I lost almost a liter in the Montrachet racking.

 

[jimmyjames23]

Any idea what the mix ratio of sugar to water to Welches Concentrate for an SG of 1.080?

I'm not sure if you mix the Welches to an SG of 1.080 by using less water...
Or
Mix the Welches normally (3 cups water to 1 cup Concentrate) and then add inverted sugar to bring the SG up.

Sorry, I usually use Grapes or Juice. I have co concentrate experience.

 

[seth8530]

Well, first you need to take the SG of the concentrate. If it is too high to measure then keep adding water untill you can measure it. Once you figure out the SG of the concentrate find the difference between that and 1.080.. Say that ends up being .020.. Then you would add enough sugar to reach .020 depending on your volume.

Ie if it takes 1 lb of sugar to rach .020 in 1 gallon of water but you only have a quart of volume you would add .25 lbs of sugar to make your 1 quart raise up roughly .020 points..

Does this help?

 

[jimmyjames23]

Not really. I'm familiar with my mix measurements. I was wondering if the standard practice was to only use water to correct the SG when using Welches concentrate.
I wouldn't want anyone to frown upon my Hobo wine starter. lol
I tried to take the SG of just the concentrate but it's so sweet it's off the scale.
As its a for starter only I was thinking of only adding water to bring the juice down to my desired SG and then pitch the activated proofed yeast. That way I avoid "stretching" the grape flavor.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Did we not see the post about boiling the Ribena to neutralize the sorbate the way the Brits who make wine from Ribena do it???? WVMJ

 

[seth8530]

Right, want to try a little experiment? Give me the volume of the concentrate and the number of servings as well as the grams of sugar per serving. I will then attempt to calculate how much water you need to add hit 1.080... If im close I will show the math.. If not then o well lol.

 

[jimmyjames23]

I did see that. I didn't boil the Ribena. But I did add 2 liters boiling water to every 1L Ribena.
If I do attempt Black Currant again I'll save myself the headache and buy the concentrate online.
Great Tips all around.

I think the fermentation is underway.

I'm testing the Montrachet to see if its viable. That's 2 out of 4 batches that didn't take off like a firestorm when pitched. I have a hunch the Montrachet I purchased on eBay is dead.
I tried to get Montrachet locally but this is a Lalvin town.